Can anyone tell me why bike shops only open for half a day on Sunday?

[Genie]

oh yes, for me it was Thursday nights, we either congregated at the local Honda shop or the record shop.

[SS90]

That's what I mentioned the Friday night hang-out. Life has changed and it doesn't happen any more.

On another note, swearing at us (or was that just for Ixion?) in your post isn't a great way to improve the look of your business.

Also I think it was Brian d'M said above how the reliability of bikes has changed. Same as cars we don't need stuff all the time for them now, so if a shop wants our money, they have to tempt us with things to spend our money on and when we are available to spend our money. Me and Mrs are definitely impulsive buyers, if you aren't open when the impulse is alive we move onto the next thing to buy. I mentioned buying her new car on a Sunday - easy as that. Honda Cars know what to do to get our business, so why not the bike business?

I can understand why crasherfromwayback felt the need to use expletives in his post, it basically comes from frustration, bought about by the unwillingness of some people to "see it from the other side".

I have thought if a better way to explain why, motorcycle shops are not open 7 days.

ahem......

The reason motorcycle shops (worldwide) are not open 7 days, is because if they do open 7 days, they don't actually make any more business.

What happens is, when you open 7 days, you simply spread the same business you made over 5.5 (or 6) days, over 7.

Now, think about that. Bike shops struggle as it is, and if they now have to pay staff for an extra day, for the same yearly gross income as they make only being open 6, then the whole industry just took a giant step backwards as far as
growth is concerned.

What about the bank? Why aren't they open even 6 days?

If you have to go to the bank for anything other than a statement, you have to take time off work to do it.

Is there a "Kiwibanker" website?..... I want to ask them why they aren't open 7 days, and while I am at it, I would also like to know why clearing a cheque takes 5 working days, the same as it did 30 years ago, and yet, I can send money all over the world in 24 hours......

[Ixion]

I can understand why crasherfromwayback felt the need to use expletives in his post, it basically comes from frustration, bought about by the unwillingness of some people to "see it from the other side".

I have thought if a better way to explain why, motorcycle shops are not open 7 days.

ahem......

The reason motorcycle shops (worldwide) are not open 7 days, is because if they do open 7 days, they don't actually make any more business.

What happens is, when you open 7 days, you simply spread the same business you made over 5.5 (or 6) days, over 7.

Now, think about that. Bike shops struggle as it is, and if they now have to pay staff for an extra day, for the same yearly gross income as they make only being open 6, then the whole industry just took a giant step backwards as far as
growth is concerned.

A marketing manager would argue that higher availability will grow the market so that it's not the same amount of business spread out more. But, it's a bit irrelvant, because, really, I don't think anyone (well, not me, anyway), is arguing for 7 day opening. or 24 hour. Just that the 40 hours open time is allocated on a more consumer friendly basis

What about the bank? Why aren't they open even 6 days?

If you have to go to the bank for anything other than a statement, you have to take time off work to do it.

Is there a "Kiwibanker" website?..... I want to ask them why they aren't open 7 days, and while I am at it, I would also like to know why clearing a cheque takes 5 working days, the same as it did 30 years ago, and yet, I can send money all over the world in 24 hours......

Some banks do open on Saturdays. Personally, I haven't been inside a bank in years. Internet banking has made it unnecessary. Anything I can't do on their website, I have a personal banker, I email her and she sorts it. Interestingly, the other bank I bank with (but less business, cos their internet site is not as good), have just sent me a letter saying they've also given me a personal banker. We shall see.

[Ixion]

Good points, well argued. I'll try to address them .

Ixion, while I see your points, and they are valid, I simply see your perceptions of the NZ motorcycle industry industry as somewhat jaded.

What you are not taking into account is the shit that the industry workers must deal with, the time wasters,the punters coming into the shop, trying on a pair of boots helmet etc, simply to find the correct size before ordering it online....this is an increasing phenominon now that "online shopping" has become so popular.

Firstly, it's not really about me. i'm just using my own experiences as an example. There are probably half a million of us who are not free during the 9-5 week. It's not just office workers- sales rep, truck drivers are on the road all day, but they have to stick to their territory. So they can't get to your shop.

I probably am more jaded than some. But , unlike many, I'm still idealistic enough to WANT a healthy profitable local bike trade. Many are less jaded but just don't bother. "can't get to the bike shop, never mind here's Trademe". And you'll never see them, and never hear from them why they don't buy from you.

All businesses have punters. When I was in pre sales we were trained to 'qualify" customers. But, todays punter may be tomorrows buyer, it's the job of a good salesman to turn the punter into buyer, if not today then in the future. And hopefully punters' mates, family etc.

I don't want to whine and moan about specific examples, as that is not needed, but you have to understand it's not possible to provide a motorcycle service industry the way you describe.

I get the feeling that you would like a "more professional" industry........ that would be nice, however, professional employees are VERY expensive, and, by in large, professional employees have very little "heart and soul" when it comes to motorcycles.

This isn't realestate, nor is it insurance, (neither of which require real qualifications), where the rewards are high (financially), and, essentially "any monkey in a suit/dress" can make money, because, basically the customer needs the product you sell, and "being professional" simply pays.

{snippy}

Yes, the trade does need to be more 'professional'. But not in a'suit' way.

Oily overalls, or jeans and polo are just fine. But, the motorcycle trade is really really bad at the one thing it absolutely MUST be really good at. Selling.

Not just taking the money from someone who has already made a purchase decision, but persuading him to buy (even when he only came in to look). And showing him that your (pricier) product is actually better value. And then upselling him, (or switch selling him); and selling in extras; and prospecting and getting the next sale (making sure he comes back to YOUR shop next time he wants something, and making sure that his contact details are on file, and that he's volunteered a couple of leads to follow up).

Now, this is all Salesman 101, and I imagine you're going to tell me "yes yes we know all that you are teaching your grandmother to suck eggs".

Why then, does it so very very rarely happen? There are a few shops that are good at it, but they are rare exceptions.

I will give some examples. Obviously they're based on my own experience, but i don'tr imagine other people would fare differently.

Couple of months ago I lost a glove(Arrgh. Why is it always the right hand. Anyone want a collection of left hand glubs?). OK, if I skip lunch I can just make it to the nearest (quite well known) shop and back in my lunch break.

Hm, where's the glubs. Oh, down the back. Ah, they're all mixed up. Winter, summer, cheap, dear. Oh and there's some more on the floor. I wonder how much these are they're not marked. These look OK, but the pack is sealed, I can't tell if they fit, and there's no sample to try. Finally pick a pair, cheapish, not quite what I wanted, but time is short. No-one's come near me in the 20 minutes or so, no-one else in the shop. Up to the counter, 'That's $X,' , pay, leave.

Fairly typical bike shop experience. And just look at the salemanship crimes in it.
Empty shop. Here's a customer. let's ignore him.
He's looking round , can't find something, let's ignore him.
He's looking at gloves, doesn't seem to have a definate plan in mind, let's ignore him
Oh, he's picked something cheapish, let's not bother to upsell him to a better (= higher margin) product.
He's at the counter, let's not mention our current promotions. And don't bother trying to prospect contact details. Or offer add ons. Or ask for leads. Or try to get him to come back again
(I'm ignoring the fact that the limited opening hours meant no time for browsing- and thus no time for extra sales for the shop).
It's not a exceptional scenario. Another.

I spent a year looking for a good jet style helmet (yes, ATTGAT treason, but if you ride a classic bike, you need a classic helmet). Stuff that has no time constraint, I'm willing to call into shops when I can. No luck finding exactly what I wanted (most shop people had never heard of them - not so knowledgeable, but, worse, they weren't interested in finding out. Here's a potential customer wants something, and is having trouble getting it. Let's not bother to find out what it is, or if other people might want it too, after all it's only an opportunity to secure a market niche) .

Finally decided I'd buy what was available as an interim. (I'm still looking for the right thing - Davida doesn't fit me well). Into shop. Ask question again, in case. Nope, only what's on the shelf (no interest in exploring further). Pick one, pay for it , leave.

Now, I just bought a retro helmet. The salesman made no effort to sell me goggles! Surely a no brainer. Or a scarf, or neck warmer (" Open face can be chilly , Sir. We have a very nice line of quality wool scarves, that would really set off the helmet"). Might have sold me one, my old one is pretty tatty. No attempt to sell me a jacket (" Can I show you our line of matching jackets. For such high quality garments, they're remarkably well priced, and would really complete the retro look"). Might have sold me one, it's on the shopping list. But worst of all, this was a Triumph agency. Triumph, big on retro, heres a middle aged guy buying retro gear, right in our demographic and obviously interested, but lets ignore this chance to get a hot prospect,just let him walk out without securing even an email address. I wonder why bike shops have a problem making money? Missed a chance to upsell, at least two extra sales, and a good prospect for future sales. Never mind, let's just complain how hard it is

I could give lots more examples. Couple of years ago, I walked around for a year, with $1000 in my pocket (literally), because no-one was interested enough to sell me some boots and leggings , until finally a decent salesman at Mt Eden Motorcycles actually did what a salesman is supposed to do : sold product. And got my $1000, and some repeat business.

Now, this doesn't fit with the "bike shop staff have to be highly trained". They're not, or not as salepeople anyway. And that's a really big problem, because it's the ability to actually sell that gives a meatspace shop an edge over the Internet. An Internet seller has very little ability to sell. He just displays his merchandise and takes an order. But in a shop, you can SELL. You can turn a $50 customer into a $200 customer. And secure repeat business for years. But it doesn't happen. The trade is just simply ignoring the one thing where it has a massive edge over the Internet.So what are those people highly trained at ?

Want more? I got more

Even shops that are way out in front of the pack, like Cycletreads (light years ahead, they have a web site , so I can see if what I want is in stock, and the last time I bought a tyre the guy actually upsold me to a more expensive one! Only time anyone's ever tried. And they're open when I can get there ). But, every time I've bought a tyre (lots), and had it fitted, they've gotten me to fill in a job form. Which has a space for email address. Which I fill in. But I've never had an email from them! No basic "Thanks for buying from us, we hope you are happy with your purchase". Costs nothing and cements a relationship. No "We're having a promotion, hope to see you " email. Nothing. They're handed a prospect list on a plate and they ignore it. And that's from the shop at the top.

{Snippy stuff I'd comment on, but space is short} One thing professional sales people are taught is "to CONDITION buyers/customers to prices", that is, if a customer comes in and say's "oh, that's too expensive", it is a professional sales persons JOB to explain to the customer WHY the price is what it is, as well as "close the deal"...... but from my experience (plus what I read here), the average public simply respond by saying that "the bike shops are ripping us off", and go buy off the net.

I feel I have explained WHY parts/accessories are dearer in NZ retail outlets than "on line", but by in large, it would seem that many people "fail to be conditioned"

Selling motorcycle accessories is another story (again, let's leave bikes out of it), a customer has a budget, and they want that budget to get them the best helmet that it can, so, they first hunt for PRICE......when they find one they like in their price range, they try it on for size, and, to do this correctly, an experienced sales person is required (they cost money you know), then, having decided that this helmet is for them, the next words out of their mouth is "can you sharpen up the price, "or "can you do me a discount"
{snippy relevant stuff about pricing in the interests of space, it's in the OP }

I commented below to Mr Taylor, that maybe the customers he was seeing in his shop were those who , for whatever reason, didn't want to buy from the Internet. I think he thought I was taking a dig at him, but I wasn't. What I was meaning was that , the trade seems fixated about having to match the internet for price.

Now, firstly, in my experience, NZ prices are NOT much dearer than those on the net. Once you factor in freight, credit card charges, ripoff exchange rates. By and large, for "run of the mill" stuff, and parts, NZ works out maybe 10-20% dearer. BMW is a bit more, amybe 30%. I think that's mostly a reasonable price to pay for the intangible benefits of buying locally . IF the local shop would bloody well open so that I can get there to buy the stuff ! Specialised stuff, may be different.

Secondly, pitching on price is probably not a good model for NZ bike shops. Someone will ALWAYS undercut you. Surely it's better to try to secure business based on the other two purchase imperatives (remember? price, quality, convenience).

What I was trying to say to Mr Taylor was "the customers you are seeing are not shopping purely on price, or they wouldn't be in your shop. So sell them on quality (if possible) or convenience. They'll pay a premium price for it". You may find that if you put your prices up , but make the purchasing experience a better one, that you get MORE business. And more margin.

I think that most of the NZ motorcycle trade has wound itself into a cost cutting death spiral. Mr Taylor, somewhere, implied that his charge at rate is $90 per hour. Frankly, for a service as skilled and market specific as his, that's ridiculous. I'd expect to pay that for someone to do a basic oil change. For what Mr Taylor offers, I'd argue he should be charging double or triple that. Sure, some people will bitch, and some will go away muttering. But , invest some of that extra income in marketing, and in making the business attractive to purchasers, and net income should actually go up. And it's a less stressdful life! Motorcyclists nowadays are not all impoverished studants or minimum income strugglers. A lot of bikers have very high disposable incomes. The NZ trade is failing to harvest them. To do so they need a change of mind set. It would be a good thing for everyone if that happened.

[Lurch]

But, it's a bit irrelvant, because, really, I don't think anyone (well, not me, anyway), is arguing for 7 day opening. or 24 hour. Just that the 40 hours open time is allocated on a more consumer friendly basis

Exactly, and the arguments that keep being given are often bullshit:

The main reason is the people who work in them have lives outside the bike shop. A lot of them go for a ride

Bullshit who'd rather ride on busy weekend roads than on a Monday or Tuesday while all the other pricks are at work?

Because at 3.30 on a Sunday afternoon, when your young family is at home

I know I'd rather have two days off during the week to actually spend time with my wife and kids, even if they were school age and I could drop them off and pick them up from school for a change. Heaven forbid I might even be able to participate in a part of their school lives for a rather than see them for a few minutes when they bugger off to a friends place on the weekend.

[glyder]

I have only lived in NZ for 4 years, and the amount of times i have tried to get work done or buy stuff on a weekend to be told no monday to fri 9-5 only. I once had to take a day off work to buy a plug for the bath, yes i understand people need time off but if you work in shops you work when people whant to buy stuff. Its like a chef saying i dont work weekends and i dont work night times. I once phoned a builder for a quote and he said only give quotes monday to friday, and when i questioned him he said well i need a life. Well go and work for some one then when u self employed if u dont go to work u dont get paid. Same thing as a shop if u not open you can not sell stuff. Thats My Rant Cya

[DMNTD:Me]

Question to y'all....if your local bike shop was open for a "full" day on Saturday (including workshop) and had a late night (7pm-ish) during the week, would that siffice or would it still not be good enough?

Cheers

[Quasievil]

We are open every day hehehehe

[DMNTD:Me]

We are open every day hehehehe

Same...sort of. I was mad enough to put my cell number on my business card so I get calls all days at alsorts of times.
The doors may close after 4pm on a Saturday yet I'm always helping people out but I'm cool with that...my kids aren't

[glyder]

Guys
I know you guys need a life, and i know there are only 4.5 million people here and thats why we love it here but surly there must be a half way house here where we can get our stuff with out loosing a day at work and you guys get your life back

[merv]

Question to y'all....if your local bike shop was open for a "full" day on Saturday (including workshop) and had a late night (7pm-ish) during the week, would that siffice or would it still not be good enough?

Cheers

I've said all through this thread some late closing during the week is all I need - if I could buy stuff then I can plan ahead and buy stuff to use in the weekend which I'd prefer to wasting time on the weekend buying the stuff first e.g. oil, filters etc.

[merv]

Then another comment:

I dealt with Motomail for the first time in a while when in Auck last week and the service was perfect. They've had my email for years and they do send out info that way (not the big old posted catalogues like they used to) which got me to their sale even though I was up on business and they do have slightly later evening hours so no worries, and for that crack about discounts above, the guy took off a further 10% without me even asking for it once he found I was already on his email list. This was before they even found out I know Big Dave. Can't complain, but I had looked around local shops Motomart & TSS and couldn't buy what I wanted - lack of stock, not my size etc.

[avgas]

Nah just put ya stuff up on trademe and I am all good lol.
Kiwi-livin at its best

[DMNTD:Me]

I've said all through this thread some late closing during the week is all I need - if I could buy stuff then I can plan ahead and buy stuff to use in the weekend which I'd prefer to wasting time on the weekend buying the stuff first e.g. oil, filters etc.

Hey ya Merv,
A more than reasonable request IMO...we're already doing this already.

As mentioned earlier, we WOULD be open on a Sunday if it was financially viable.

[Ixion]

Then another comment:

I dealt with Motomail for the first time in a while when in Auck last week and the service was perfect. ...

I don't deal with Motomail much, because for some reason I don't seem to fit their demographic, but if you do I suspect they would be pretty good. They seem to be the other one up there with Cycletreads.

I've said all through this thread some late closing during the week is all I need - if I could buy stuff then I can plan ahead and buy stuff to use in the weekend which I'd prefer to wasting time on the weekend buying the stuff first e.g. oil, filters etc.

I think it's maybe two different markets. For me, the late night is important , because that's my "race to the bike shop after work on Friday(or Thursday) to pick up XXX for the weekend". Whereas Saturday morning is "browse" time- can be done any Saturday morning, one where I feel like getting up early and don't have anything else on. Saturday afternoon would be nice, but not a big deal.

The other advantage of a late night, is that if you go in and can't get what you need, you can reprogram your weekend, so it's not wasted. Whereas if you have to wait till Saturday morning, and then can't get what you need, the Saturday is sort of wasted. By the time you get home again it's getting too late to plan some other activity.

And then close one day during the week, Monday I guess so staff have a decent weekend. I shouldn't have thought there'd be much business on Mondays.