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Thread: Speed kills. Or does it?

  1. #1
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    Speed kills. Or does it?

    "Interesting", I thought to meself, "I bet this falls on deaf ears in New Zealand..."

    Largely cage related but still relevant to bikers.

    From Motor Times, Thursday 18th...(Waikato Times).

    "Safety expert for Mercedes says strict speeding laws are not the answer to lowering road tolls.

    A leading safety expert says a crackdown on speeding is not the answer to reducing the road toll.

    The vice president of safety development for Mercedes-Benz, Ulrich Mellinghoff, says crash avoidance systems, better roads and more roundabouts would do more to cut the road toll than tougher speeding laws.

    The approach is in direct contrast to state governments in NSW and Victoria, who have been preaching the "speed kills" mantra as the number one panacea for the road toll.

    Mr Mellinghoff says motorists often fell into the trap of thinking they were driving safely because they were doing less than the speed limit.

    He says the German road toll had reduced significantly in the past 20 years, despite much higher speeds on the roads.

    " In Germany you can drive as fast as you want. I don't think that speed alone is the problem. It's the wrong speed in a special situation. With speed limits you will not stop those situations. If you have fog and drive at 100km/h, which is allowed, you are really in high danger of having an accident. On the other hand, if you drive 250km/h on the German autobahn in clear weather conditions with no traffic, it's not really a risk and no accidents happen in those situations," he says.

    His claims are borne out by German road statistics. In 1972, there were 20,000 deaths on West German roads. In 2009, there were 4100, despite 20 million more people on the road (including the old East Germany).

    "That was with much worse traffic and significantly more vehicles on the road," says Mellinghoff.

    "What we have seen is there are a lot of very different reasons for accidents. Sometimes it is not the high speed, it is the wrong speed. If you limit the speed, the driver often thinks all they have to do is drive the speed limit and they don't have to think," he says.

    It was better to put the responsibility for driving at the right speed on the shoulders of the individual driver.

    Accident avoidance technology, including pedestrian avoidance systems, also had the potential to drastically reduce the road toll.

    When stability control was introduced on all cars in Germany, there was a 30 per cent reduction in accidents where a single car leaves the road.

    He says Australia's New Car Assessment Program, which crash tests cars and awards safety ratings, should reward vehicles more for crash avoidance, rather than the protection they offered in a crash.

    "They should focus more on these assistance systems. It makes more sense to avoid an accident than to reduce the severity of it," he says.

    Mercedes was working on a variety of advanced systems designed to cut the road toll, including infra-red systems that detect pedestrians at the side of the road in the dark and spotlight them to alert the driver.

    The company also had brake assistance technology that intervened to provide maximum braking force in an emergency situation.

    He says the assistance, which occurs in the last 100 milliseconds before a crash, can reduce impact speeds by 5 to 6km/h.

    He says Germany has seen good results from increasing the number of roundabouts, as they reduce the number of severe accidents at intersections, while better separating vehicles from cyclists and pedestrians also helps to keep the toll down.

    He believes car to car communication can also play a big role in reducing the toll, with cars able to warn drivers behind them about hazardous road conditions including ice on the road or accidents ahead."
    . “No pleasure is worth giving up for two more years in a rest home.” Kingsley Amis

  2. #2
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    Speed Kills? Or Does It? No just the sudden stop


    Interesting,but I would off thought operator error play's a huge part too,

    Guess it wont be long before we are just passengers in the car and the car's drive them self's all because mankind is incapable of taking responsibility

    But I do agree better roads would help.... will the German's build our roads ???..............

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogsnbikes View Post
    .... will the German's build our roads ???..............
    ...I wish...
    . “No pleasure is worth giving up for two more years in a rest home.” Kingsley Amis

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogsnbikes View Post
    Interesting,but I would off thought operator error play's a huge part too
    I think that's why he mentions roundabouts... I've felt it myself driving the cage... I only ever wake up when there's something that needs doing... other than that it's just driving in a straight line at the speed limit... what could possibly go wrong... just my take though...
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by slofox View Post
    The vice president of safety development for Mercedes-Benz, Ulrich Mellinghoff, says ... more roundabouts would do more to cut the road toll than tougher speeding laws.

    He says Germany has seen good results from increasing the number of roundabouts, as they reduce the number of severe accidents at intersections, while better separating vehicles from cyclists and pedestrians also helps to keep the toll down.
    He obviously han't seen the kiwi version of a "roundabout"...
    European roundabouts are closer to 50 metres across, instead we get 5 metres diameter if you are lucky.


    Our retarded, over qualified, bunch of dickhead road designers and their political masters will still continue to pump out the propaganda though.
    TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”

  6. #6
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    Our problem is the roads we ride and drive on. The goverment pays a company to maintain a section of road before it is started. What should happen is the road is made then reviewed and no payouts given untill final inspection by somebody with a brain.

    Most of the time a road is re sealed that was mint but because it is on the list of roads to be done this year it gets done again and 9 times out of 10 they make it worse. Or the end of the year is comming up so they do alot of roads that were mint just to use there left over money so they get more next year. Another huge waste of money and time where they could be making or improving older roads.

    The other day i was out for a ride they were re sealing a mint road again but this was in the heat of the day so the tar wasnt even going to set and with cars and trucks going over it it was just being ripped apart. I wasnt happy 3km of wet tar and stones @ 10kmh the rims on my CBR have chips all over them and it took a can of WD40 to remove the tar it was every where even got to the top of my tank.

    Can you tell i hate NZ road makers.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogsnbikes View Post
    Interesting,but I would off thought operator error play's a huge part too
    That always plays the biggest role. A car is fairly harmless when it's sitting still.
    KiwiBitcher
    where opinion holds more weight than fact.

    It's better to not pass and know that you could have than to pass and find out that you can't. Wait for the straight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R6_kid View Post
    A car is fairly harmless when it's sitting still.
    Say that in Bagdad and you'll get laughed at.

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    A drunk, A teen with a death wish, someone dropping a hot coal when smoking, Texting, dialling out, soccer mums, sales reps, apprentices doing a run in the company ute, ma'n'pa complacent, batch(sp)/crib owners racing to start the weekend, those who drive with the wrong emotional state, and all those who think there is nothing left to learn are probably the problem. Untill the those problems are addressed its probably better to keep speed down.

    You could probably have no rules at all if there was total accountability.

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    I completely agree with the Mercedes man. Interestingly enough, this is also the position of the AA.

    The German's have got it right - engineer a roading network that implicitly suggest tot he driver the correct speed. Even been on back roads, with an open road speed limit, and then suddenly found a corner that was much sharper than the rest of the road - aka, a road built to surprise the driver, not to reinforce the speed needed.

  11. #11
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    Go find out what kind of licensing system people have to sit through before they can get a drivers license in Germany.
    This is why we have so many crashes.
    YEP YOU SCRATCHED THE RIGHT SCRATCHIES - Learners
    YEP YOU CAN NAVIGATE A CORNER AND GIVE WAY - Restricted
    YEP YOU GAVE WAY PROPERLY AT ALL INTERSECTIONS - Full

    Germany - 40 hours written, 40 hours practical
    Also note how much sitting a test/paying for one costs, and the repercussions for losing it.
    Some people just can't seem to comprehend that they do not have the right to be unoffended in their lives.
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  12. #12
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    I agree with Mr Mercedes also. Early 70's here had an atrocious number of deaths. Todays lower road death rates are always being claimed by the cops & their methods (listen to their propaganda when the toll goes up in a year ... they blame the bad driving motorist. If it drops, they give themselves a pat on the back & publicly thank themselves). They NEVER seem to acknowledge the vast improvements in vehicle manufacturing. It's obvious that the current lower road toll rates (despite the fact that car numbers on the roads have risen by hundreds of thousands in the last 40 or so years) are mostly because of improvements to the motor car.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spearfish View Post
    A drunk, A teen with a death wish, someone dropping a hot coal when smoking, Texting, dialling out, soccer mums, sales reps, apprentices doing a run in the company ute, ma'n'pa complacent, batch(sp)/crib owners racing to start the weekend, those who drive with the wrong emotional state, and all those who think there is nothing left to learn are probably the problem. Untill the those problems are addressed its probably better to keep speed down.

    You could probably have no rules at all if there was total accountability.
    All of those example listed could be argued that the constant speed limit suggests to drivers they'll be safe within those limits while one corner can be unsafe doing 25. Now Joe Bloggs goes around that corner "legally" at 100 falls off the cliff and dies.

    This is the message consistantly being sent is "speeding kills", and so is the reciprical message "don't go over the speed limit and you'll never die"

    His claims are borne out by German road statistics. In 1972, there were 20,000 deaths on West German roads. In 2009, there were 4100, despite 20 million more people on the road (including the old East Germany).

  14. #14
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    Until Kiwis learn to drive 100kph is about 20kph too fast for most on the roads.

    And our terrain combined with our population size negates autobahn type roads.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scumdog View Post
    Until Kiwis learn to drive 100kph is about 20kph too fast for most on the roads.

    And our terrain combined with our population size negates autobahn type roads.

    We don't need an autobahn, we need consistent road engineering.

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