FFS! As a sponsor...

[Billy]

I havent commented on any of recent posts as i niether know/have seen or been involved with any of the incidents.
But as i see it NZ road racing needs a BIG KICKUP THE ARSE in general. I love the sport i will continue to be involved and put up with whatever happens...............but as soon as our team is ready and able we will be off to Oz and beyond.
I have been involved with bike racing for many years in the UK both road racing and drag racing and there is always politics and bitching but NZ has it down to a fine art.
You call us "the whinging poms" but NZers are masters a moaning about things , but never seeking a solution........imho
I hope the new commision can improve things...........the members have a wealth of experience, lets hope they can use past problems to pave a way forward........and if so lets hope MNZ will listen.
There is too much altering and changing/half-hearted decision making and general lack of direction at present for it to work properly. This starts at the top and filters down to club and individual level. A solution/hard & fast rules& ruling needs to be properly sorted and implemented...............it wont suit all..........tough........as long as it suits the majority........ and is effective........ if you are still not happy find another hobby.

These decisions should be sort by the right people at the right opportunity.................. what goes on here or any internet forum may help to raise issues and concerns of the general audience but in the end shouldn,t have any bearing on the "right" decisions.
It is good to hear peoples comments and ideas...............long may it continue.

Well said Merv,Hopefully your not lost too Aussie for too long,That young fella of yours is a real talent.A testament to the good that can be done when people with a positive attitude take it upon themselves to act on an idea,Hopefully now theres a new administration at MNZ they can work closely with the team at MCC and bring some of that knowledge to the North Island

[scracha]

Hey Guys.
I just want to say as a sponsor that the politics being played out on KB are no good for the sport. It's humiliating for the lot of you and the sport in general.

Many of you are high profile, with decades of experience, and much needed role models for our next generation.
May I suggest you keep it offline - and that it's time for a meeting between you all, and clear the air in person, like gentlemen. Do what needs to be done.

You may ask what's it got to do with me? Not just that I class some of you as friends, but..

I'm a sponsor, a KB user, a paying spectator, and a NZ Motorcycling race fan.

Three of those, NZ Motorcycling needs in spades! As you were!!!!

Nope. Totally disagree. This is a public forum. Supposedly we live in a democracy. Keeping dirty laundry behind closed doors hasn't worked in the past. One thing KB does do very well is let people speak their mind, get an immediate response and sometimes a very quick resolution. I wouldn't find out half the information I needed if everything was done through the supposed "correct channels".

[Hitcher]

You may ask what's it got to do with me? Not just that I class some of you as friends, but..

I'm a sponsor, a KB user, a paying spectator, and a NZ Motorcycling race fan.

FFS. Get over yourself.

[sinfull]

I did not call you that!! I wrote it on the seat of the sidecar "Rider, Paris Hilton" because youre a whining bitch when its not set up to your liking.

Bwahahahahahahaa i so miss you guys when your away racing !

[Genestho]

FFS. Get over yourself.

Yea says the guy who stands by and lets some of the sports biggest names rip the crap out of each other in public, carryon, sterling work sir!

Thanks to you guys that apologised, you didn't need to, certainly not to me anyway.

What prompted me to start this thread is that I continually hear talk about the state of the sport, sponsorship is hard to come by, tv coverage is hard to come by, and to finish things off - the sport is further dragged down by people many hold in high regard, in a public verbal ball busting from some of the sports biggest heroes and role models, going for that last pound of flesh.

Who invests (for want of a better word) in the industry?

Who do you think reads these forums?

Young'uns who wish to enter the sport and young fans reading what their heroes are doing next, or what they've achieved.
Potential sponsors. (money, tv coverage)
Paying spectators. (Crowds and money)

There's surely not one single racer in this forum that doesn't want the sport to grow as far as sponsorship and crowds.

This forum is not just about you guys - the racers. You guys are role models.

KB could be the perfect place to nurture the sport, instead of further damaging it!

[Hitcher]

Yea says the guy who stands by and lets some of the sports biggest names rip the crap out of each other in public, carryon, sterling work sir!

The issue is that some of the "sports biggest names" feel compelled to "rip the crap" out of each other in public. The reality that Kiwi Biker provides a forum for them to do that is largely irrelevant. Certainly any effort for any of this site's Moderating team to try and hush that up smacks of censorship.

While there are some who may be Pollyanna-ish and want their heroes to be "role models", the reality is any sport is far from that. Motorcycle racing is no exception.

I've always believed that high performing athletes are a few sheep short of a flock, because they need to be that way to succeed. "Normal" people standing on tip toe can't reach some of these folks' arseholes. After reading what some of them think over the past six or so years I've learned that they are all passionate about their sport. Indeed they would be the first to tell any patronising wanker who wanted them to wind back their obvious enthusiasm to "get fucked". And I would wholeheartedly support them in that sentiment.

I'll say it again. Get over yourself.

[Genestho]

Mate, your opinion doesn't represent the sport at all, or the racers I support - who actually are better than that, your opinion represents KB and its standards.

The guys and ladies here represent themselves, their sponsors and the fans. The other people who read KB Race Forum. A little reminder does no harm. Nor does a little grace and dignity.

Thankyou for your input - I fully respect and understand where you are coming from..... as a Mod

[Billy]

The issue is that some of the "sports biggest names" feel compelled to "rip the crap" out of each other in public. The reality that Kiwi Biker provides a forum for them to do that is largely irrelevant. Certainly any effort for any of this site's Moderating team to try and hush that up smacks of censorship.

While there are some who may be Pollyanna-ish and want their heroes to be "role models", the reality is any sport is far from that. Motorcycle racing is no exception.

I've always believed that high performing athletes are a few sheep short of a flock, because they need to be that way to succeed. "Normal" people standing on tip toe can't reach some of these folks' arseholes. After reading what some of them think over the past six or so years I've learned that they are all passionate about their sport. Indeed they would be the first to tell any patronising wanker who wanted them to wind back their obvious enthusiasm to "get fucked". And I would wholeheartedly support them in that sentiment.

I'll say it again. Get over yourself.

First of all Hitcher,I dont want you to think Im singling you out,Imonly quoting your post cause its easier.
I think both yourself and TGW have valid points on this subject .
Firstly TGW was right to point out the fact the younger riders were following the threads I was posting in.As I have been involved with some junior training in the past few years I could see where she was coming from,That combined with the fact both sides had resorted to innuendos directed at one another led me too believe the best thing for all concerned would be to apologise and move on as there was no sign of a resolution,However I fully agree with you regarding the use of these forums and what has transpired over the last few days wiil not stop me from sharing my opinions on this or any other site.Im all for a good debate,Just like you and TGW are engaged in

[gixerracer]

I wouldnt take this place serious at all we all are just really taking the piss coz we miss each other it is actually how we talk to each other at the track

Yea says the guy who stands by and lets some of the sports biggest names rip the crap out of each other in public, carryon, sterling work sir!

Thanks to you guys that apologised, you didn't need to, certainly not to me anyway.

What prompted me to start this thread is that I continually hear talk about the state of the sport, sponsorship is hard to come by, tv coverage is hard to come by, and to finish things off - the sport is further dragged down by people many hold in high regard, in a public verbal ball busting from some of the sports biggest heroes and role models, going for that last pound of flesh.

Who invests (for want of a better word) in the industry?

Who do you think reads these forums?

Young'uns who wish to enter the sport and young fans reading what their heroes are doing next, or what they've achieved.
Potential sponsors. (money, tv coverage)
Paying spectators. (Crowds and money)

There's surely not one single racer in this forum that doesn't want the sport to grow as far as sponsorship and crowds.

This forum is not just about you guys - the racers. You guys are role models.

KB could be the perfect place to nurture the sport, instead of further damaging it!

[roadracingoldfart]

Problem being that most of the people involved with MNZ are volunteers and are kept busy enough,Trying too get the day to day stuff done.But your right atleast then we would have some sort of parity.

Well all i can add to that Billy is when a few debates / shitfights or whatever are started here or any other forum site , take the guage of poinion of both sides and look for the posters with a bit of dedication and let them help the overworked volunteers to achieve what the entire sport actually needs. If MNZ or any governing body actually listened to the crowd and followed the rules as stated it would be much more harmonious.
Any kind of debate is healthy and out of any debate you can find a resolution or a dead end i guess , whats important is the debate or shitfight is actually sensible / factual / useful and stays away from public demeening of individuals , thats not healthy.

Ok ,
line up here to bash me for saying it .............................>>>


Paul.

[Billy]

Well all i can add to that Billy is when a few debates / shitfights or whatever are started here or any other forum site , take the guage of poinion of both sides and look for the posters with a bit of dedication and let them help the overworked volunteers to achieve what the entire sport actually needs. If MNZ or any governing body actually listened to the crowd and followed the rules as stated it would be much more harmonious.
Any kind of debate is healthy and out of any debate you can find a resolution or a dead end i guess , whats important is the debate or shitfight is actually sensible / factual / useful and stays away from public demeening of individuals , thats not healthy.

Ok ,
line up here to bash me for saying it .............................>>>


Paul.

Yip,Agree 100%.In fact I have made that suggestion too the roadrace commission,But as pointed out in my post above,They dont always have the time available to visit the relevant sites.The Bryce Meads discussion was a classic example of miscommunication.While I can understand Scrivy,Drew etc being outraged at what they saw as MNZ going outside their own constitution too suspend Bryce,None of them approached MNZ for an explanation or clarification.Scrivy spoke too the meads family as did Marcus and got their side of the story but neither spoke too MNZ to ask under what rule the suspension was executed,Yet a number of posters on that thread decided MNZ were wrong.Is that healthy debate ??

[Biggles08]

...Yet a number of posters on that thread decided MNZ were wrong.Is that healthy debate ??

The FACT alone that the the Meads never got a chance to air their side of the story is what is wrong in this case...that is the only FACT that I know...as far as the suspension of Bryce I do not know if it is justified and frankly that is besides the point... the ONLY point I was trying to make is there is ALWAYS two sides to every story and if one side is not allowed to tell their side then that is wrong! Everyone has the basic right to defend themselves if a charge is put against them...they had no chance in this case Billy...that is fact, so in this case their was no debate, let alone a 'healthy' one!

[Billy]

The FACT alone that the the Meads never got a chance to air their side of the story is what is wrong in this case...that is the only FACT that I know...as far as the suspension of Bryce I do not know if it is justified and frankly that is besides the point... the ONLY point I was trying to make is there is ALWAYS two sides to every story and if one side is not allowed to tell their side then that is wrong! Everyone has the basic right to defend themselves if a charge is put against them...they had no chance in this case Billy...that is fact, so in this case their was no debate, let alone a 'healthy' one!

Yes,I do see your point Biggles,But without trying to start an argument,Isnt that exactly what you and Scrivy etc have done as well ?Listen too the Meads family side of the argument and take it as gospel?Not that Im suggesting in anyway they are not telling the truth,But its still only one side.Consider this,That part of his probation(that as Scrivy has pointed out may not be legal in the constitution)included a clause that should his conduct be brought to MNZs attention,Then suspension be immediate.Im not suggesting this is the case,Rather its a possibility and because I havent ask the question of MNZ,I can neither confirm nor deny and I fail to see how anybody else can if they dont have both sides of the story.That is the point I have been trying to make.Are the MNZ president and board perfect?Absolutely not!Are they likely to make mistakes?Yes they are!Do we have the right to question them when we think theyre wrong?ABSOLUTELY.Do we have the right to bag them on an internet website with half the facts?Absolutely NOT.

[sidecar bob]

I wouldnt take this place serious at all we all are just really taking the piss coz we miss each other it is actually how we talk to each other at the track

Fuckin bingo there. well done.
But i do find a few people got a bit stressed out when they have their half truths & outright lies pointed out to them.
Fortunately they seem to have moved on now.

[roadracingoldfart]

Yes,I do see your point Biggles,But without trying to start an argument,Isnt that exactly what you and Scrivy etc have done as well ?Listen too the Meads family side of the argument and take it as gospel?Not that Im suggesting in anyway they are not telling the truth,But its still only one side.Consider this,That part of his probation(that as Scrivy has pointed out may not be legal in the constitution)included a clause that should his conduct be brought to MNZs attention,Then suspension be immediate.Im not suggesting this is the case,Rather its a possibility and because I havent ask the question of MNZ,I can neither confirm nor deny and I fail to see how anybody else can if they dont have both sides of the story.That is the point I have been trying to make.Are the MNZ president and board perfect?Absolutely not!Are they likely to make mistakes?Yes they are!Do we have the right to question them when we think theyre wrong?ABSOLUTELY.Do we have the right to bag them on an internet website with half the facts?Absolutely NOT.

I sort of see what your angle is Billy and i dont want it to dominate the forum thread at all but heres a thought for you........

We all know that rules are set out to be followed by the racers that are members , hence we all know what is going to happen when the rules (as set ) are broken by a member, (remember we all have to belong to race in N.Z. ) .
These rules are published on a website and used to be in a book form when we could all read properer .
Now, if i heard of a member that was penalised by the governing body (that wrote the rules) for an offence that wasnt in the rule book or was handed out an infraction that wasnt a set down punishment then i believe i would kick up a fuss simply because the rules had been broken by the buggas that wrote them . Some of the rules were brought by a need found in specific N.Z. race fields and some are written by a French body that speaks funny.
Either way both parties are supposed to know the rules as they are written and i would consider an infraction on the track to be equal to an infraction in enforcing action handed down.
If a governing body is forced to react to an infraction i would expect that body to have a very clear knowledge of thier rule and penalties for that infraction.

In summary , if MNZ can break a rule i would like to see what the French funny talking guy's say about that particular issue.

We all know the rules and the punishments but goal posts can not and must not be moved in a knee jerk reaction, therfore MNZs version or explanation is moot if they are so far away from the guidlines (rules) as it appears when hading down a penalty.
What i have read in this thread is quite clearly a cock up by all parties involved and yet there is a couple of people that have been deeply affected by desissions made thus far.

I would like to see an outcome publicly (to its members) available after a suitable investigation has been completed.

Paul.