Do we want more road cops or less?

[CookMySock]

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

I couldn't. I'm too angry. I would be part of the problem in seconds, and besides I'm a dirty filthy boy with a loud overtly-honest mouth and would embarrass hell out of the force for sure, and I wouldn't give a fuck. We are both better off well out of reach of each others' throats, I assure you.

In a way we are the same. No qualms and no morals.

Steve

[red mermaid]

Your ignorance of the actuality is amazing and shines through like a strong beacon in your post.

Each state has its own police force in Australia and they are unique in there own way.

And if you are talking about the Federal Police in "Australian police are universally acknowledged to be totally corrupt" then you are so far wide of the mark as they are usually the ones that investigate state police.

And dont attempt to justify your post by harking back to the old days in NSW (and only there) of the corruption that they had...it is 20-30 years ago.

has teh author ever BEEN to Australai? or is he just swallowing the complacent PR of the Oz cops?

Australian police respected ? Yeah right. Like a Great White is respected, maybe (Note how carefully I avoided the analogy of the Brown Snake)

Feared, perhaps. But also loathed despised and avoided. The Australian police are universally acknowledged to be totally corrupt , in both the monetary and the "power corrupts" sense.

More importantly, their attitude that "the law is what this gun says it is " has seriously damaged respect for the Rule of Law in Australia. When the police atttude is "might makes right" inevitably the public will adopt the same philosophy. If you're powerful enough to get away with it, it's legal.

The Australian policing model is a VERY BAD one , which we should avoid. If we want to copy someone else (But why ? ) then copy Pomgolia.

[Ixion]

OK. So you don't want NSW mentioned. How about Victoria, instead (the state you guys are so keen to copy). Just for a start, lets look at

In the 1980s and 1990s most Australian police forces battled widespread allegations of corruption and graft. These allegations culminated in the establishment of several Royal Commissions and anti-corruption watchdogs. Victoria Police have also had their fair share of inquiries (Beach et al.). Criticisms centred around the fact that Victoria Police members were fatally shooting members of the public (both innocent and guilty) at a rate exceeding that of all other Australian police forces combined [3].

In 2001, Christine Nixon was appointed Chief Commissioner, becoming the first woman to head a police force in Australia.

In addition to allegations of corruption among the Uniformed Members of Victoria Police, allegations also surfaced in respect of senior members of the Civil Service serving in Victoria Police. Two Motions were raised in the Supreme Court of Victoria. One, Motion 5771/2002 alleged that senior members of Victoria Police divulged the name of a senior Victoria Police Whistleblower to the detriment of his safety. The other, Motion 6337/2002 alleged that the Ombudsman's Office and Auditor General's Office in Victoria had falsified evidence and produced a whitewash report into allegations of corruption in relation to several multi-million dollar contracts. For reference, these documents may be viewed at the Prothonotary's Office at the Supreme Court of Victoria in Melbourne.

In June 2003, Taskforce Purana was set up under the command of (then) Assistant Commissioner Simon Overland to investigate Melbourne's "gangland killings". Victoria Police boat docked.

In May 2004 former police officer Simon Illingworth appeared on Australian Story to tell his disturbing story of entrenched police corruption in Victoria Police. He has also written a book about his experiences entitled "Filthy Rat".

In early 2007, Don Stewart, a retired Supreme Court judge, called for a Royal Commission into Victorian police corruption. Stewart alleged that the force is riddled with corruption that the Office of Police Integrity was unable to deal with. [4].

Don't take my word for it though. How about an Oz newspaper, they should know
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...461830675.html

May 27, 2004
Victoria desperately needs a police inquiry. The evidence cannot be ignored.

Article continues with lots of such evidence

Indeed, we might ask Premier Bracks and his Police Minister the following question: if the present evidence for an inquiry is not enough, despite having passed the threshold that pushed NSW, Queensland and, most recently, Western Australia into royal commissions and inquiries, then what precisely would be enough to warrant such an inquiry in Victoria?

So, that's corruption in RECENT years (have you had your eyes shut for the last 20 years) in NSW, QLD and WA. And an authoritive Oz paper blowing the whistle on as bad a state of affairs in Victoria. You're running out of states to hide behind

Not to mention the Hoser files. Heard of them ? (probably not, none so blind as those who cannot see). A whole book about police corruption in Victoria . As well as Mr Illingworth's

But, I guess, to you, a cop, any cop, is always right, and whatever a cop does can't , by definition , be wrong or improper. Cos cops are God, right. The Oz police have the same attitude. Plus the advantage of being able to shoot anyone who disagrees.

[Geemsee]

Having been on the receiving end of the UK's 'visible police presence' .......or unmarked patrol cars as they are more commonly known (see earlier posts!!), I would say nah, less traffic cops is fine by me!!

The great thing about NZ riding in my (pommie) opinion is that by comparison to the UK the roads are quiet and the cops tend to stick to the stretches where they can issue the most tickets, which generally speaking are boring motorways that should be avoided anyway!

I can't comment on Aus riding/driving as I've never been, but if they issue tickets for the kinda stuff mentioned in this thread I think I'll get the Mrs to drive instead!



Straight roads are those annoying bits used to join the corners up!

[spajohn]

I live and work in and around central Wellington and am constantly amazed by how many police I see on the road. Similarly I was talking to a guy behind the counter at Mobil in Paraparaumu and he commented that he has heard more sirens on that stretch of road than he did living in a city (in the UK?) with a population greater than all of NZ.

Some of the points in the article were valid around age of vehicles etc, although doesn't mention that some states in Aus do not require a WoF at all, whereas all NZ road vehicles do regardless of age. As for not getting demerit points I find our situation somewhat laughable here in NZ, as quite frankly without them there is very little deterrent. As much as I don't want to get demerit points if at all possible if it was more than a revenue gathering exercise surely they should...I've had conversations with friends who are police and ex-police who question the "black spots" camera's target as often they are not area's that accidents have occurred, just lucrative...think Mt Vic tunnel entrance in Wellington (although that has since been removed).

[SPman]

and as a result every highway patrol officer is respected rather than despised in that large holiday isle to our west.

You are fucking joking! Most people I know in W.A. (and that includes a lot of "average, 4WD driving, country folk) wouldn't cross the road to piss on them if they were on fire! All the ones I've met are pedantic, humourless, anally retentive shits who seem to be totally programmed in state government "safety speak".

[MaxB]

There is a joke told to me by my Aussie rellies

"(Insert state name here) eg NSW police, the best that money can buy"

Not much respect there.

[Sentox]

My only experience with the Australian highway police is watching them on TV.

What amazed me is that on a TV show ostensibly designed to feature them in a flattering light, they still came across as dicks.

[davereid]

Its seems that even with 21% of police time dedicated to traffic, our road toll is more influenced by a sunny weekend that the police presence.

Strangely we seem all over ourselves to spend money on traffic enforcement. Yet as many kiwis die from accidents at home, from suicide or prostate cancer, yet we dont fund these areas at all.

Thank christ, the last thing need is a licence to do DIY, or a government interview every year to make sure I'm not depressed !

[red mermaid]

Im sure someone said we should follow the UK police model because they aren't corrupt like the Australian police forces!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-justice.html

Looks like you are once again talking about something you know very little about!

[R6_kid:Me]

Interesting... hasn't the road toll in Australia been going up? Especially since they removed the open speed limit on the Outback roads?

[Morcs]

id like to think theyd just leave it the way it is. any changes to the system arent going to benefit us, just piss us off more.

[Maha]

I'd like to see More!!
More cops doing less on the motorway system that is.
If they were to spend less time there and more time elsewhere, where they should be, policing the 75-80kph drivers that cause frustration, which leads to possible mistakes being made, then possibly, the road toll may reduce. But theres not alot of revenue to be made doing that is there? ...mmmm as you were.

[p.dath]

Feared, perhaps. But also loathed despised and avoided. The Australian police are universally acknowledged to be totally corrupt , in both the monetary and the "power corrupts" sense.

+1. The corruption in the Australian Police force has been well publicised.

Also compulsory third party insurance has been deemed not financially worthwhile. The vast majority of the New Zealand fleet on the roads is already insured (something like 93% from memory). Earlier this year when they investigated those vehicles invovled in accidents with no insurance they found most of them were un-insurable drivers. For example, they were driving with no licence, wrong licence class, while on a suspended licence, etc.

So the effect of introducing compulsory third party insurance was neglible, but there was a huge cost to administer it.

You have to remember, publications make money by getting more eye balls to look at them - not with factual well informed information.

[JMemonic]

I wonder if the author is looking through rose coloured glasses and wants to hark back to the days where Police were Police and MoT officers enforced the traffic rules.

We do need more front line police, we need less back office bullshit, we need clearly defined laws that lawyers cant twist (that's on both sides) and that the public can easily understand and if we are to have a restorative justice system we need to come up with a system that works and has penalties in it for recidivist offenders and we need to devise this by looking around the world and picking the best bits discarding the crap and figuring out what works for NZ not so clone of Victoria with a little Sweden thrown in.

The author is impressed by the Aussie road toll vs the Nz on for a comparable period ie Easter and a couple of his comments make sense, however he seems to forget that Aussie roads are for the better part are straight long things, not twisty hilly things we thankfully have here, he forgets there seems to be a little better driver education (if only a little better). There are a number of factors that go into this toll and lack of visible Police on the roads is such a minor factor in the equation, as is the age of the fleet well maintained 15 year old cars are are often better than a non maintained 8 year old car. We have the requirement here for warrants of fitness were as in Australia they don't so there is no requirement for maintenance so a little off roading and as long as the car looks straight, it could be a death trap on wheels and its fine on the road.