The chance of a lifetime: You are asked to start a bike shop. How should it be done?

[Smifffy]

As predicted this has turned into yet another "Stupid customers don't deserve the industry" thread.

What I already get from the bike shops and really like:

Friendly service
So far a good follow up rate on the commitments that are important to me
Occasional use of the steam cleaner
Coffee when I just pop in for a chat and they are quiet
Organised rides and events than I am invited to
Being told by the workshop of issues that are likely to crop up with my bike in the near future
Dealing with the same guy that I bought a bike off 25 years ago
I was impressed when buying gear for The Moll that there was a biker chick working there that could understand all the chick stuff


What I'd really like to see:
Much more selection of gear, most places seem to stock entry level and top end stuff, with not much middle of the range. I'm not worried about it being in my size, just being able to look at it, feel it, gauge the quality etc. Then with a tape measure check the size and get the right one in, within a timeframe of say a week or two. Before I go in I will already have an idea of online prices and if the shop doesn't compare I will say so there and then, rather than sneakily taking the measurements etc and ordering online as suggested by some on here.

What I really don't like:
Being looked down on by twerps in "status" shops
Being ignored while staff & mates huddle in the corner with coffee (I know I said earlier i like coffee & a chat, and I will always expect the staff to leave their chat and deal with a customer 1st - if they get busy actually making a living I will finish my coffee quietly and go, perhaps putting in a good word for them to the prospective buyer as I leave)
Cheap crap with a status symbol logo on it that costs twice as much as something decent.

Having said all of that I'm planning a trip to the states at end of year, does anybody know of a huge ass motorcycle superstore, (kind of like the bass pro shops, but for motorcycles, if anyone knows them) preferably in the South?

[Robert Taylor]

Robert. You have missed the point of this tread totally. I had a small business in servie and sales for 10 years. I know all the ins and outs, the agency stuff, how you think you have it and then someone else suddenly sells the same cheaper bla bla. This thread was not about how hard it is to make a dollar as a honest bike shop owner (as I am sure you are).

The question here was: WHAT DOES THE CUSTOMER WANT?
Why not "listen" to the customers, see if there is something you can pick up here (Personally I wonder if many had thought about the point that was made about treating young new customers really well so they stay with you?).

Your 35 years in the trade is most probably a hinderance as things have changed. Heaps. And will keep on doing so.

I tell you a story: Bizerba was the biggest weighing scale manufacturer in the world. All their scales were mechanical. Then the Japanese started making electronic ones. Bizerba refused to change. All for gallant reasons: They would have had to close factories, make all their mechanical technicians redundant, suppliers who made a living on supplying them with dampeners, oils, springs etc would have had to close. So they kept on making their brilliant, but by now old fashioned, scales. And they lost all their market. From having been the biggest supplier in the world they went to close to bankrupcy. In the end they had to start making electronic scales and take the drastic mesures they did not want to. Today they are again one of the biggest.

Same happened with the Swizz watch makers when digital watches came out.

What you are currently fighting is the same. You can do nothing about the change. Either learn to adapt or die.

So again, take this thread as it is meant: as a list of ideas from customers re what they want. Nothing else. This is not a place for you to try and tell anyone why this or that can not be done. In Brainstorming nothing is wrong or impossible.

Peace!

I disagree, as much as its ''inconvenient'' to dare mention the realities of operating costs etc. My own business model ( and this thread is NOT about me ) is largely giving my customers what they want because unlike Headbanger said after 35 years I do actually get it. Remember also that many or most operating costs are a given , imposed by central and local Government.
In my own case a very high percentage of customers come to us direct and there are several reasons for that but there are two worthy of mentioning here;
1) They often have no confidence whatoever in the ability of the dealer to set up and customise the suspension for their needs. In fairness this has also become a specialist job
2)We are flexible on price to meet head on the competition from the internet. That inevitably often means cutting out the dealer and the further margin they would enjoy i.e a traditional retail margin, and certainly not a handsome one. That rests okay with me when a dealer has done no work to get a sale as the customer already knows what he / she wants. But it also rests uneasy with me in respect of dealers who are very pro-active.
Either way I want to cut out as much as possible the faceless overseas internet companies and the odd parasitical parallell importer that pops up feeding off our expense in national advertising, a requirement stipulated by the manufacturer. As for parallell importers they can burn in hell because they truly are parasites
Did I mention that I dont work a 40 hour 8 to 5 job like the old business model?

We like all distributors in NZ dont enjoy the same bulk discounts that a distributor in a huge heavily populated economy can, we dont enjoy importing goods devoid of clearance charges and gst, we have to forward order many goods in line with production schedules and the exchange rate you pay for it at is that prevailing at the time, not maybe a more favourable one a few months later when you are still holding stock. Etc ad infinitum.

My business has very much adapted and its always a case of chasing a moving target.

If you want to prove a point why dont you start up a motorcycle shop?????

I understand what many people are saying and agree, personally I like to make my customers as happy as possible and I think by a and large we achieve that and they go away thinking theyve had a lot of added value. Im lucky in that respect that Ive got very good staff and can only recall a couple of glitches that were subsequently rectified.

But when I see simpleton post about $40 charge out rates because the guy just doesnt understand simple economics then Im going to say something despite there being emotional claptrap following.

[Headbanger]

In Roberts case, If he simply said, I'm an expert, this is what you pay for my expertise, I provide an excellent service, this is what that service costs, Well, I can respect that. Paying for expertise and service is value for money.

But all this melodrama about dependents, misguided customers, Being owed due to being in business, and large self-involved posts........meh.

[Robert Taylor]

Value for money.
Appreciation for being their with my dollars.

I've had better friendlier service spending $5 at Mcdonalds then I have had trying my hardest to spend thousands at some bike shops.

Flipping heck if you buy suspension off my business and pay thousands for it Ill be very thankful beyond the plastic Americanised greetings at that fast food joint! And there will be lots of added value!

[Robert Taylor]

I disagree. The cost is very seldom the main factor. Yes, if there is two similar businesses selling same thingy then I will go to the one that is cheaper. But if you read the replies that have ansered the question you will find that being treated well tends to be something that comes back again and again. Sure, being ripped off by a friendly and smiling sales guy is not gonna work. So the price will be a factor. And as also stated, today with the web we all have an idea (well most of us...) what the bit really should cost.

While there is always a small hardcore of customers where the lowest price is 100% the only factor I have to otherwise agree with everything that you have said. I think also we are all a bit different, personally I hate the in your face salesman type that pounces on you when you have only half a foot in the door, I think its important to have a cheery disposition and not ignore a customer but also they should have a bit of space before being pounced upon.
I also like extremely knowledgable sales people but that is a commodity harder and harder to find in many industries.

[Squiggles]

Cycletreads is a good example imo

[crazyhorse]

I don't mean to be a killjoy, but there are already at least 3 bike shops in HB, and I know that they are all struggling with the downturn in economy. Therefore I wonder how you would think starting up a NEW bike shop in HB would take off, when people are not spending the money they/us used to spend.

I think you're concept is good, but wonder, that is all......

[Robert Taylor]

I doubt he will ever get it, His 35 years in the industry has been in a business model that no longer fits the customer base, or at least a sizable chuck of the customer base.

The rise of the internet has created a far more informed customer and a far more efficient way to purchase goods, and it up to local bussiness to adapt if they want to compete for those dollars, and there is plenty of evidence this is happening with the launch of local internet based retailers with huge database of stock, quick turn arounds, and slick ways of purchasing.

It will be interesting to see if the manufacturers are willing to let their entire local based infrastructure fail or perhaps sacrifice all the middle men and supply directly to the retailer at a cost equilvent to the international retailers.

Either way, Things will continue to change.

If I can pick up on one thing there that I dont think you will disagree with. There is a lot of ''information'' available on the internet, but what percentage is good information and what percentage is not good? Thats a very real danger and anyone gullible may suffer from the cynical but not incorrect view that ''everything you read on the internet is correct''

i hear the term ''researching the net'' used often. Just dealing in my specialist trade ( and the knowledge and experience Ive personally accumulated ) if individuals read and believed a lot of the ''suspension cures'' posted on here by 5 minute experts theyd be up the creek without a paddle

[Motu]

I disagree. The cost is very seldom the main factor. Yes, if there is two similar businesses selling same thingy then I will go to the one that is cheaper..

Yes,they will go to the one that is cheaper,regardless of the service provided.In my business I tried not to get sucked into the price thing,and aimed to be the most expensive workshop in my area.I still had arguments about price,abuse about being a ''rip off artist'',but at least I knew most of them weren't coming to me for a cheap deal.I had no intention of being a greasy nice guy,but fair and honest goes a long way.

[onearmedbandit]

Someone suggests that bike shops need to be more competitive with their prices compared to what you can purchase overseas.
Someone else suggests that the hourly rate charged out is too low and that businesess rely on 'large'margins in parts to survive.
Someone suggest that the true charge out rate should be $200. Someone suggests that it should be$100. Countered by it should be $200, but even at $100 the market won't support it.
Someone suggests that it cost a lot more than we think to run a business. Someone else agrees and wonders how they even survive.

So can someone explain to me exactly how bike shops should keep their doors open, be competitive with prices available online, and keep their charge out rate at the current level. I'm all ears. Or in this case, eyes.

[Robert Taylor]

I stand corrected - dumb may be the wrong expression - short-sighted is more accurate.

The bike shops are not responsible for the GST inequities, yet are somehow expected to compete?

You continue with your smart shopping and your market forces. But at the end of the day, the bike shops won't be there when you need them.

I had a meeting a few months back with my local MP about GST inequities but ( in spit of him being from my beloved National party ) nothing will come of it unless business can present a united face and lobby the Government ( any Government )

[Robert Taylor]

Yes,they will go to the one that is cheaper,regardless of the service provided.In my business I tried not to get sucked into the price thing,and aimed to be the most expensive workshop in my area.I still had arguments about price,abuse about being a ''rip off artist'',but at least I knew most of them weren't coming to me for a cheap deal.I had no intention of being a greasy nice guy,but fair and honest goes a long way.

Well said. If you charge at the bottom level of the market that is where you are going to stay. FAIR and HONEST are the key words

[Robert Taylor]

Someone suggests that bike shops need to be more competitive with their prices compared to what you can purchase overseas.
Someone else suggests that the hourly rate charged out is too low and that businesess rely on 'large'margins in parts to survive.
Someone suggest that the true charge out rate should be $200. Someone suggests that it should be$100. Countered by it should be $200, but even at $100 the market won't support it.
Someone suggests that it cost a lot more than we think to run a business. Someone else agrees and wonders how they even survive.

So can someone explain to me exactly how bike shops should keep their doors open, be competitive with prices available online, and keep their charge out rate at the current level. I'm all ears. Or in this case, eyes.

Add this thought, the margins on new bikes are abysmally poor , often single digit. Bikes should be higher priced affording dealers a decent margin. The trade also needs to get its act together and be more like the car industry in following more rigid trade in price guidelines. Get rid of the dutch auction mentality of which dealer is going to overpay the most for the trade. Ive heard people brag about this and frankly they dont care a toss if the dealer subsequently goes broke, as long as they get the deal.

[bogan]

2)We are flexible on price to meet head on the competition from the internet. That inevitably often means cutting out the dealer and the further margin they would enjoy i.e a traditional retail margin, and certainly not a handsome one. That rests okay with me when a dealer has done no work to get a sale as the customer already knows what he / she wants. But it also rests uneasy with me in respect of dealers who are very pro-active.

Personally I don't want a shop to be flexible on price, it suggests the shop is overcharging customers who dont ask for a discount does it not? I also don't like to ask for a discount anyway, like what makes me so special that I should be able to get it less than list price? If a shop advertises they are flexible on price then yeh, I'll ask but I havent seen one that does.

So can someone explain to me exactly how bike shops should keep their doors open, be competitive with prices available online, and keep their charge out rate at the current level. I'm all ears. Or in this case, eyes.

As I said before, increase the charge out rate to compensate, workshop jobs will still cost about the same as the parts will be cheaper, and you'll get more sales at a lower profit margin which should be about the same as less sales at a higher profit margin. Of course I don't actually know what the margins/economies of scale are, but thats how I see it working anyway.

[Motu]

A story of service provided to me by a bike shop this week....

I was looking at some pants online,looked like what I wanted...99.9% positive feedback.Looking at the website,I see my local bike shop is an agent,and as I'm wary of sizes preferred not to buy online,I wanted to try them on first.I asked the owner about them and told him he was the agent - "Are we?! I didn't know that!'' So we looked up on the website and there it was.So he ordered me a pair on the phone as I stood there,should be in store in a couple of days (from the next town).I went back 3 days later and no pants.They were rung and ''Oh,I forgot to send them''.Three days later and still no pants - ''You didn't tell us the size''.Yes they did,style,colour,waist and leg.The youngest member of the team took it in hand and reordered,followed up twice to make sure they had the order and were shipped.So finally after 2 weeks I got what I wanted...happy with the product.

I'm sure the feedback on this site would be scathing of the bike shop,but it wasn't their fault,but the fault of the supplier.Obviously this guy is very prompt with orders online,but totally hopeless with phone orders....or it may be a different person,but whatever the reason,he made his agent look bad in all areas.For me there was no problem - I didn't desperately need them,I know the bike shop and everyone there as I used to work for them,and they kept me informed all the way.But disappointed at the online providers ''real world'' service.