The chance of a lifetime: You are asked to start a bike shop. How should it be done?

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

Very similar to a thread I started asking a simple question about why bike shops opening hours are different than other retailers. It was the most fustrating but most enlightening thread I have ever started.

To summarise that whole thread:
Bike Industry: yes they could open longer hours but that just spreads the same amount of sales across a longer period and the longer period equates to higher running costs.

Customer: the extended opening hours would result in more sales - due to a large majority of potential customers unable to make it to bike shops in the present opening hours.

Outcome: neither side agreed but it was educational. The bike brand distributor rules mean that the market is oversaturated in terms of seperate shops. NZ popoulation not big enough to support so many individual shops.
Quite a few customers cited a new breed of shops that weren't linked to bike brands that were adopting new business models in Auckland (Cycletreads/ deus ex). However, the population size differential in auckland meant that their business models might not be appropriate outside of the main centres.

At the end of the thread there was quite a good bit of brainstorming around what would constitute a good shop (from a customers point of view).

Unfortuantely, probably due to feeling a bit villified - industry posters generally challenge any post from a non bike industry poster as to the lack of realism for implementation purposes. Sometimes these arguments get really silly: I lost count of how many people kept saying "bikes shops can't open 24/7 that's just crazy" to the original question of "why aren't they open for longer at the weekends?".

This seems to be happening in this thread as well. As far as I could tell th OP was asking for a customers point of view on what the perfect bike shop is. He is not trying to piss off the bike industry posters. I know he can't stop bike industry people posting, but he did politely ask for them not to.

Would have made sense if the end "good" ideas from this thread could have be followed up in a seperate thread for the industry related posters take on the feasibility of implementation.

I personally can agree with a bit of both sides, customers will always want more, and no industry should allow the customer to dictate everything.

I think anyone can sympathise with the bike industry people. If someone came into my world with shallow knowledge of it and dared to express an opinion then I'll tell them to take that opinion elsewhere.
But, you can't blame the customer for asking for more - expect it and play nicely when they do - insults just piss off posters and everyone else who reads thm, and perpetuate a image (rightly or wrongly) of an industry that doesn't value the opinion of its customers.

Apologies for the long post.

Back on topic - If I had a bike shop I would scrap the discount card given to purchasers of bikes from that shop. This just lets everyone else know that they are getting a worse deal than anyone who bought a bike from there (when buying anything else such as parts or accessories).
It also makes any sales, to non bike purchasers, prone to the customer wanting to haggle as they already know that the shop is willing to give upto 10% discsount to some of their customers. It effectively creates a two tier customer system.

There - that should get the ball rolling again.

[Katman]

It also makes any sales, to non bike purchasers, prone to the customer wanting to haggle as they already know that the shop is willing to give upto 10% discsount to some of their customers.

That happens all the time already.

I had a customer looking for a pair of boots. He looked at a couple of different brands that I had in stock - one priced at $200, the other at $400.

He prefered the more expensive pair and said that he'd buy them if I did them at the same price as the cheaper brand.

He didn't seem to grasp the idea that different boots cost the shop different prices and for me to sell them at the price of the cheaper pair would have meant me selling them at well below cost.

[bogan]

Because its up to the manufacturers. We are an insignificant little country at the bottom of the world and dont have any muscle. Have you travelled a lot overseas? If so you will know that.

So thats a No then, and I take it that means the like of wemoto.com buy directly from the manufacturer?

I realize we are very small compared with other countries, but I figured NZ would still have enough trade to get significantly better prices than those available to the public anyway.

So it turns out its not a no, as wemoto buys from a wholesaler which offers international services, and with numbers like 2kg orders mentioned I'm guessing NZ has the buying power to buy from them right? Which begs the question, was your post; deliberately misleading, uninformed, or something else I've missed?

[Tony.OK]

Regarding 24/7 hours.................have a think about it.

Other shops that are open every day are attracting a completely different market. Say Harvey Normans for eg, how much of the population buys/wants TV's etc?........pretty much the whole adult population.

What percentage of NZ in comparison is interested in bikes etc.............be lucky if it were 5%, hardly seems reasonable to expect a shop to be open and possibly paying penal rates for 1 or 2 sales, when those sales more than likely would be during the week anyway.

Just a thought.

[avgas]

I want the ability to take photos of the motorbikes.
Thanks a fucking lot Deus Ex Machina Auckland

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

Regarding 24/7 hours.................have a think about it.

Other shops that are open every day are attracting a completely different market. Say Harvey Normans for eg, how much of the population buys/wants TV's etc?........pretty much the whole adult population.

What percentage of NZ in comparison is interested in bikes etc.............be lucky if it were 5%, hardly seems reasonable to expect a shop to be open and possibly paying penal rates for 1 or 2 sales, when those sales more than likely would be during the week anyway.

Just a thought.

Valid thought but lets not relitigate that on this thread.

If you want to read through the bike shop opening hours thread (590 posts) then here is the linky:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...-day-on-Sunday

[DMNTD:Me]

Most important to me is good,friendly service and welcoming atmosphere.
An educated workshop and a thorough stock of regularly used parts and accessories. A willingness to at least attempt to gain whatever it may be that I am after and if not able...to point me in the right direction without attitude.
I don't expect big discounts etc, however if I am about to drop $1,000+ of some gear in a shop then some love would be appreciated and reciprocated by returning to spend some more of my money.

Regarding opening hours...6 days per week is absolutely fine as long as they have a late night and are open most of Saturday too.

Since being involved with the motorcycle industry(sales) for the past 2 years I have seen the other side of the coin so to speak. I do however believe that a customer deserves the above...at least.

[nosebleed]

I want the ability to take photos of the motorbikes.
Thanks a fucking lot Deus Ex Machina Auckland

Really? Thats new then, I've got photo's from not long after they first opened. No-one minded when I took them.

[cowboyz]

i havent bothered reading through everything... but from a bike shop... I would like competitive prices. Staff that know there stuff and mechanics who pay attention and do a good job, first time, every time.

its not the putting right that counts... Its the reliability that the work done will be done of a high standard every time.

[Katman]

And another thing.........

I rang the local Suzuki dealer today to get a price on the spider gear assembly for the front diff on a 10 year old LTF500. (A part that I would consider a fair price to be around $300-$400). I was told that Suzuki NZ's retail price was $790. Ten minutes after getting over that shock and phoning the customer to get his go-ahead, I had a phone call back from the dealer to say that he'd since found out that that was Suzuki NZ's old price. The new price is now $1400. I politely told him Suzuki NZ could shove it up their arse and I'll continue to look for a second hand one.

You try being the bike shop who has to explain to the customer that the exorbitant figure he was given 10 minutes ago has just doubled.

Not my fault and not the fault of the local dealer (possibly not even the fault of Suzuki NZ - although they could certainly make a better effort to keep their pricing details up to date) but rather that of a company higher up the food chain.

[avgas]

Really? Thats new then, I've got photo's from not long after they first opened. No-one minded when I took them.

Yeah I have photos from Sydney one - but last weekend I was in the Auckland one to check it out, started taking a few snaps and part way through the bitch behind the counter said "You can't take photos of the bikes".
Not one to get my own blood pressure up, I put the camera away and walked out. Seemed a bit ridiculous to me - but then again when all you have is t-shirts with faded photos of semi-classics..........well wouldn't be that hard to duplicate that using photos of their bikes spose.

[PeeJay]

So it turns out its not a no, as wemoto buys from a wholesaler which offers international services, and with numbers like 2kg orders mentioned I'm guessing NZ has the buying power to buy from them right? Which begs the question, was your post; deliberately misleading, uninformed, or something else I've missed?

Obviously part of the problem is all these old codgers stuck in their ways, cant see the forest for the trees etc.
A fresh set of eyes and a new perspective untainted by past experience could be just the ticket.

Why dont you guys who have come up with all these brill ideas start up a company and bring parts for the NZ biker?
Buying in bulk direct from the manufacturer is an excellent idea, run it as a non profit organisation and pass the savings on. If you time it right the present crop of wholesalers and retailers wont know whats hit them until its too late.
That would just be the beginning, it wouldnt take long before you would have expanded to Australia and with the power of the internet, the world.
Probably find the bike shops wanting to buy from you as well.
If the price is right

[dipshit]

A

I rang the local Suzuki dealer today to get a price on the spider gear assembly for the front diff on a 10 year old LTF500.... ...The new price is now $1400.

Compare what you need with these prices here... http://www.mrcycles.com/fiche_sectio...1998&fveh=1849

You would probably get them in quicker from the US anyhow.

[bogan]

Obviously part of the problem is all these old codgers stuck in their ways, cant see the forest for the trees etc.
A fresh set of eyes and a new perspective untainted by past experience could be just the ticket.

Why dont you guys who have come up with all these brill ideas start up a company and bring parts for the NZ biker?
Buying in bulk direct from the manufacturer is an excellent idea, run it as a non profit organisation and pass the savings on. If you time it right the present crop of wholesalers and retailers wont know whats hit them until its too late.
That would just be the beginning, it wouldnt take long before you would have expanded to Australia and with the power of the internet, the world.
Probably find the bike shops wanting to buy from you as well.
If the price is right

I've said it before, I'm an engineer, not a internet parts salesman. This thread was about what the customers wanted/suggestions, then the dealers all came in and started trying to poke holes in the ideas, so I started poking holes in their arguments, now I'm curious as to whether such an idea is feasible, many have asserted the in-feasibility of such ideas but have not been able to back it up with facts. Such assertions to me sound like the whining voice of an industry unwilling to change with the times. I'm still waiting (and hoping) to be proved wrong. And I don't want everyone to get up in arms over it, just someone to explain (thoroughly as I'm not overly familiar with whole-sellers etc). So heres an image to calm you'se all down.

[Dare]

WARNING - Unstructured ramble, couldn't be bothered re-ordering the points for readability

This is about parts/gear, not the bikes and not repairs/servicing, things I don't know enough to comment on.
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Lets look sideways for a moment. Electronic goods are shiny, everyone wants them and as a result there are hundreds of online retail stores in NZ trying to undercut everyone else in any way they can. It's vicious.
Yet somehow they can still maintain return policies and customer service, an impossibility according to some of the people in this thread.

Granted, electronics are inherently tiny and freight is an important issue, not to mention comparing a $300 phone to a $3000 titanium thingamy, but that is ignoring something important here. Buying off the internet is one thing, reliably finding a site that ships the part/gear YOU want to NZ at any price is not easy. Contrary to what people seem to think there arent actually that many sites that tick all the boxes when it comes to shopping online, let alone finding a store in NZ that has x in stock and y quality of service at z price. The net is powerful as a means of sharing knowledge, and given that most parts need shipping to NZ anyway it is not an unreasonable idea to open a web shop where there is no stock to sit on, but where the products shown have access to reliable information as to sizes/quality/compatibility/availability, etc. This is how I have been buying electronics for years and it hasn't failed me yet.

I guess what I am suggesting is a site like pricespy.co.nz or einfo.co.nz . Unfortunately it seems like an anathema to many of the people in this thread now because where is the face to face? Which is a very Kiwi viewpoint in my experience, and that is exactly why most web outlets for motorbikes have a strong physical presence, motomail being an example, whereas many of the new electronic shops do not.

What I am suggesting is to leverage the advantage of web based businesses. That is, infinite shelf space and sharing customer information (B2C and C2C). As the company grows it can find and add new distributors (B2B, something I know nothing about but hey) to add to it's growing repertoire, giving more choice to the (apparently over educated?) consumers, something that neither physically limited shops or individuals can do.

There is no reason that a startup web shop would not be able to have a small physical presence where top sellers would be available to try on and experienced people would handle inquiries, but that would be a nicety and not necessary for the success of the shop. From a financial standpoint I think this could run well and provide far more choice and reliability than trademe specials, the security of an NZ business (especially where DOA's are concerned), the low overheads and prices that NZ apparently craves so much, and the knowledge of a potential community of experts that don't mind answering a few phone calls/emails/questions if they get paid to do so. I'd like to say that last one was aimed at KB but somehow I think it would be more a case of finding some of the more knowledgable 'tin shed' boys and offering them some extra work.