Police killing us again!

[Spearfish]

Did the rider hit the car the instant it did the U turn or did he come over the brow that was just as blind for him as it was for the cop and hit what was then an obstruction?
I'm not wording it very well but also I'm not trying to be provocative.

There is just something so wrong that consequences of a such a simple act of thoughtlessness on the part of the driver can end a life, and is worse that this time it was a cop.

[miloking]

Just trying to follow all the facts on KB...they are all facts these posts I've been reading, aren't they?

Oh yeah they are, have you seen my "safety graph" thats straight from Statistics NZ....

[rastuscat]

teaching my son to drive at the moment, followed a cop around the Sockburn roundabout. I'm telling my son to indicate left to turn off the roundabout as we watch the cop in front taking the same direction as us WITHOUT indicating. Not the crime of the century, but not the first time I've witnessed this. These people are supposedly the enforcers of the rules of our roads, and they don't seem to know the rules themselves. Are they just lazy (mmmm, donuts).

Most Police cars are not traffic cars. So please don't assume that every cop car is driven by someone who cares about the traffic rules. Most are driven by someone thinking about the next damn domestic, the next shoplifter, the next burglary or the next stolen car.

[miloking]

Most Police cars are not traffic cars. So please don't assume that every cop car is driven by someone who cares about the traffic rules. Most are driven by someone thinking about the next damn domestic, the next shoplifter, the next burglary or the next stolen car.

Of course,all traffic cops are in unmarked maximas....its better for revenue that way. I guess the "real police" drive in real police cars...funny though i remember getting ticket for not indicating once (cost me $150, but thats ok i was menace to society) and it was a "real police" car?? How do you explain that mystery?

[steve_t]

Most Police cars are not traffic cars. So please don't assume that every cop car is driven by someone who cares about the traffic rules. Most are driven by someone thinking about the next damn domestic, the next shoplifter, the next burglary or the next stolen car.

Is it true that the ones with orange are crime or whatever, and the ones with yellow are traffic?

[Smifffy]

23 pages of dross, and I wasn't able to post, but I do have some thoughts on the issue, now that i have a minute.

1. RIP Paul, and condolences to those immediately affected.

2. I expect that the officer involved will be haunted by this for many years to come. I believe he should be.

3. "A veteran who has worked tirelessly to reduce the road toll", sounds to me like media/PR speak for "A Robocop who maxes out his quota every month at any expense". Some expense this month.

4. I am judging this particular officer. Every day every police officer makes an instant judgement on everybody they come across as they carry out their duty. A judgement as to whether the individual presenting is a worthy human being, or one that requires intervention of the judicial system. Sound judgement is therefore a pre-requisite of the job. This officer did not display sound judgement at all (IMO).

5. The police force is made up of highly trained professionals. IMO they need to maintain professional standards, pulling a turn such as this is not professional. Scrawling illegibly on an infringement notice is not professional, yet it is defended rigourously by the force. Assaulting a nutter in the holding cells for a prolonged period with pepper spray. These actions send a message to the public at large that the police are neither professional, nor fair, nor just as a matter of course. They clearly hold themselves accountable to a different (and it would appear lower) standard of behaviour than the rest of the community. In a professional organisation I would expect for colleagues to be saying things such as "For this to happen, it's likely there would have been a breach of protocols/procedure" , not just "Tragedies will sometimes occur"

6. Mistakes do sometimes happen, the wrong person gets shot, because a marksman's aim isn't as good as could be expected, etc. If you want to hold a position whereby you judge the quality of driving of others, and enforce that standard to the absolute limit, then you must also be able to adhere to that standard At all times yourself. I've personally followed a speed camera van that was doing 120 km/hr down a country road, after he knocked off for the day.

7. This is a tragic case, and I can assure you right now, that if in the course of my work duties, someone got injured, to the extent that they were unable to attend work the following day, much less killed, then I could expect to be the the focus of some pretty intense investigation. My employer would most likely also do their utmost to prove that the correct systems and procedures were in place, and that I had been suitably trained. For some reason, that they can't fathom, I had chosen not to do the right thing on the day. For some reason though, the police would rather close ranks, and prefer to be all tarnished by the actions of a few dickheads.

[michael]

Most Police cars are not traffic cars. So please don't assume that every cop car is driven by someone who cares about the traffic rules. Most are driven by someone thinking about the next damn domestic, the next shoplifter, the next burglary or the next stolen car.

So those who enforce the rules shouldn't set an example by obeying the rules?

[Smifffy]

Most Police cars are not traffic cars. So please don't assume that every cop car is driven by someone who cares about the traffic rules. Most are driven by someone thinking about the next damn domestic, the next shoplifter, the next burglary or the next stolen car.

So traffic rules don't figure then?

It shows.

[rastuscat]

Is it true that the ones with orange are crime or whatever, and the ones with yellow are traffic?

No. That policy changed a couple of years back, and all new cars in the last couple of years are lemons, not oranges.

[candor]

I don't believe in mistakes. His judgement was impaired - maybe fatigue, maybe drugs, maybe feeling the quota pressure.
The big picture is that the Police have a culture which accepts some frequent risk taking in order to chalk up daily quotas.

As was earlier said in the thread the instant respect losing spin Doctoring is to work overtime to deflect blame, shift blame to the victim if at all possible, and raise esteem and sympathy of the prima facie culprit in the public mind.

Within this ther is never any attempt to pinpoint and deal with the real causes (too precious for scrutiny) or to do the decent thing and quickly express regrets to the family, and apologies once the serious crash investigation confirms Police responsibility. Police never hesitate to share credit from their heros but when someone or their culture is in the wrong they refuse in general to dea honestly with that. Belief seems to be that this would diminish mana when the opposite is true.

Bottom line - road mutilation and road homicide is a long term disaster with effects likely still felt 50 years on. It's not yesterdays news.

[rastuscat]

So those who enforce the rules shouldn't set an example by obeying the rules?

Of course they should, like everyone else.

[rastuscat]

So traffic rules don't figure then?

It shows.

Of course they figure. Remember that most cops are just people who believe the same thing that most of the population does, and drive accordingly.

[rustic101]

Is it true that the ones with orange are crime or whatever, and the ones with yellow are traffic?

The fleet livery (colours) are slowly being replaced with yellow, blue and silver hi vis as new vehicles are bought into service. The intent was/is to ensure the public are kept guessing - hence your question are they or aren't they a traffic unit????

[Smifffy]

Of course they figure. Remember that most cops are just people who believe the same thing that most of the population does, and drive accordingly.

Not according to the sample of cops I've seen

[Indoo]

Indoo keeps demanding Ixion produce evidence of especial MC victimisation.

No I didn't, I asked Ixion for the facts and figures behind his claim that there was an endemic of Police killing motorcyclists at a high rate, which he doesn't and can't answer because he made it up.

Maybe you can educate us as to how many motorcyclists have been killed by Police and the relevance of the Goddard report in relation to this?