The Goat of Hampton Downs

[quickbuck]

Practice cornering, baking, lines, learn from others more experienced etc.

Na,
I'm sh1t at that..... My tummy is all my missus doing

As you were...

[scott2ride]

Do you have any reason what so ever to suggest that he would have done it on purpose? From what I've been told he'd spoken to you before that session and knew you weren't on tyre warmers so was expecting you to be running at a slower pace in the first few laps? Is it completely inconceivable that from his position he may have thought he'd perhaps made a clean pass on you and was clear to take "your line"? I think not - but then it's also fair to say that given it was a track day he shouldn't have been so eager to get in front of you so early in the session.

I never said he deliberately hit me. That would imply he has a death wish. But I have no doubt he knew it was going to be fricken close and that he thought he would get through and that he would look like a riding hero for passing us all. In fact I have subsequently wondered if he did it because Sam Love was in the group of riders (he was directly behind me) and he has a bit of a beef with Sam as he had knocked Sam off some months before and Sam had put the boot into him. Its just hypothesizing though.

But you are right in saying that he shouldn't have been so eagar to get in front so early in the session.

You say you were told he had spoken to me before the session. But thats just not the case. I had never met him before or ever spoken to him until after he knocked me off. And his father certainly didnt show any concern for my well being. His comments intitially were to say that I'd probably gone wide and hit his son. In fact it would be fair to say that his attitude was quite condescending and more likely to make someone angry rather than being nice.

You cant state that it wasnt the initial contact that caused the crash, because if he hadnt hit me I would have been fine and had a great day. But you are correct that it stood me up after the initial impact. Basically, he hit me in the side of the fairing then continued over my front wheel and as he tried to lean down further onto me (to stop himself falling off and to try to keep turning so he didnt crash) he sort of leaned down on and over my front wheel, turning it and standing me up. It straightened me up and sent me very wide and off the track. As it was he only just managed to stay on the track himself. And at that speed (150kph???) there was no way I could have turned. All I could do was try to brake, which was fine till I hit the rubber and shit on the outside of the corner and lost the front. But I would have been off the track and into the gravel and wall anyway so either way wasnt a fun option.

Hey if you think that my description of him makes me seem like a cock, then yippie for you. I didnt hit him, he hit me and then got thrown out and banned. I had nothing to do with that as I was with the ambulance medics when that went on and was advised of it afterwards.

The video clip from in my garage that night wasnt actually posted my me. It was posted by an over zellious mate. It was also after a couple too many drinks and yes you are right, we shouldn't have said he deserved to get a clip around the head. But it was the piss talking and everyone there was annoyed and pissed off at what had happened. If you cant see it for what it was, blowing off steam, then thats your problem not mine.

The version of events I've heard from the other side of the story seem to point out that you didn't give Bryce much of a chance to apologise. I also hear that the first thing Bryces dad asked when you came over was if you were ok. Bear in mind that they had 5-6hr drive home ahead of them so they may have wanted to make sure they had things under control in their camp before coming to talk to you - just because you approached them first doesn't mean they had no intention of coming to talk to you before they left.

Truth be told Im a very relaxed guy and it takes more than a few words to get me fired up and shitty. And just before I went over to see Bryce Darren from the Cali SB School came over and asked me to be extra nice as he said I would get banned if there was a scene. So I was nice to him when I went over and we first talked and wasnt in the slightest bit aggressive. Bryce and his father were also very civil and it was very low key at that initial stage. However their attitude wasnt one of concern for what had happened. More of a justification and somewhat condescending and general indifference to my situation of having a wrecked bike and bod.

If you reread my posts you will see that Bryce admitted up front that he had been asked to come and apologize but hadnt bothered as he said he 'didnt know where I was' (or something along those lines. So rest assured he made it clear he had no intention of coming over.

All that said, it wasnt so nice at the end as their attitude wasnt exactly making me feel like they gave any shit at all. In the end I walked away, but came back shortly afterwards and told them Id sue them for the damage. Then it got slightly less friendly, but nothing more than low key words and no yelling or physical threats from either party. They were driving off at this point and made some comments on Auckland wankers. Guess I must be one then.

[codgyoleracer]

Remember this?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF0dC9iHNrQ thats what happens!

But would be as pissed off as you if someone did that to me, At least you arnt seriously hurt

I do remember that, I aint no foggy fan - but the slowest bike beatthe fastest bike - and at that world level racing as close as they are is a day-to-day event. IMO Chilli had an option, but he chose to ignore it and push the envlope of risk.

[R6_kid:Me]

I never said he deliberately hit me.

Not exactly...

Non racers only get the track days... and non racers deserve the chance to enjoy them without having to worry about someone deliberately cutting them up.

The truth is that at all track-days, whether "ride days" or "race practice days", one group is more than likely going to have a hero or someone that needs to get their ego into check. In fact I'd be surprised if someone with your riding experience would show up to such a day and not expect there to be people riding on the limit of or outside of their ability - or perhaps 100% within the rules on the day.

I think it was an honest mistake on Bryce's part in this case and it's a shame that the incident couldn't be settled at the track without further repercussions.

For what it's worth I've previously never heard of anyone expecting payment for damage caused at a trackday - regardless of who is at fault. I've always considered trackdays to be "at your own risk" - I don't think the insurance companies chase down trackday claims for reimbursement, which is probably why trackday cover incurs an increased excess in the event that you do make a claim.

[scott2ride]

The truth is that at all track-days, whether "ride days" or "race practice days", one group is more than likely going to have a hero or someone that needs to get their ego into check. In fact I'd be surprised if someone with your riding experience would show up to such a day and not expect there to be people riding on the limit of or outside of their ability - or perhaps 100% within the rules on the day.

Yes you are correct that sometimes there is someone who needs their ego in check and people riding outside their ability. More often though they are in the medium or medium/fast group rather than the fast group. Normally I find the fast group is reasonably together and has less mistakes like overshooting corners under brakes etc.


I think it was an honest mistake on Bryce's part in this case and it's a shame that the incident couldn't be settled at the track without further repercussions.

I dont doubt that he didnt intend to hit me or anyone else. No dispute there. Though Im sure he did intend to do the bid daring move and sweep in and across us bloody closely. It just all went pair shaped as it was a careless and dangerous thing to do. As far as Im concerned it would have been settled at the track if he had made the effort to check on me or apologize (and bare in mind he was formally asked to do so by officials). But all that is said and done.

Remember, I didnt begin this thread and I wasnt the one who threw him out on the day or the one who blacklisted him from the trackdays. Nor did I approach MNZ to get him banned. So I didnt initiate any of the repercussions he has incurred. He has no-one to account for that but himself. I was just the guy who got hit and ended up with medical bills and $6000+ out of pocket for damages and happened to reply in this thread after someone directed me to it.

....I don't think the insurance companies chase down trackday claims for reimbursement, which is probably why trackday cover incurs an increased excess in the event that you do make a claim.

Actually, the insurance companies DO pursue trackday crashes. I personally know of a case recently from Taupo track where the insured rider was on his road bike and was taken out as another rider cut him off, hitting his front wheel and sending him down. The insurance company was Star Insurance and they paid for the insured bike. But they took the other rider to the disputes tribunal to recover costs. I dont know if they won and dont really care as it is none of my business. But there is no doubt it does happen. Some win, some dont. Its case by case.

Personally, if I was in an 'incdent' that had the other rider fall, irrespective of whether it was my fault or not, I would immediately go find him or her to see that they were ok. But thats just me.

And if I had done something stupid and actually caused the accident and the other person had no involvement other than being knocked off by me, then I would most definitely offer to contribute to the repair or fully repair the bike. And any of you that personally know me know that to be true. But thats just me.

If Bryce had shown some remorse to knocking me down or some empathy my injuries or damage then I would have actually defended him in these posts. Hows that for irony!

[Biggles08]

Some win, some dont. Its case by case.

I have never heard of anything like this ever happening in NZ Scott....and in my opinion I hope it never does! Imagine the chaos it would cause insurance companies and not to mention levies for those running the events! It would be just another nail in the coffin for our sport, and specifically as you have already mentioned in earlier post's, your ONLY means of getting on the track...through track days. Remember, we live in politically correct New Zealand where Motorcycling is the enemy and speed kills... anything that can add fuel to the fire for these PC low life scum, they will grab on to with both hands....don't give them any ammunition to do this.


After all's said and done, when you take your bike off a public road and ride it on a purpose built race track (even if its not a race event) ALL normal road rules no longer apply...this is why we are lucky to have ANY insurance company at all cover bikes on the track. When I was attending track days with my road bike, I used to have to tell my insurance company in advance about it and they would add an extra insurance for that one event. The excess was doubled for this time too. By threatening to "Sue" him for damages because of a collision on the track is only going to make Insurance companies think again about covering bikes at all...as they will have to begin considering both the bikes they are insuring to attend the days AND potential damages sought for from other riders AGAINST the bike they are insuring for the day in the case of an incident. Sounding like America??? I'm sure you agree we don't want that.

On another note, As I understand it (I was pitted with Bryce as you know) he was NOT asked to leave, in fact when Darren talked to him the first thing he said was "We're not going to send you home." but due to the collision with you he had ruined his bike's exhaust and had to leave...that's why they we're packing up to go. Also, Matt, Bryce's Dad was standing in a similar vicinity to where the track officials were standing when you both came together...he had a pretty good view...we'll at least as good as the officials that talked to Bryce afterwards had anyway.

[scott411]

Scott is right, the owner of the bike that was taken to the smalls claim court is an employee of mine,

basically the rider over took someone around the outside as per the rules of Motott trackday that was done at, the other rider picked up as he got a fright, clipped the back of the bike and went down, (it happened at the far sweeper at taupo)

the rider and his insurance company took the rider and the owner of the bike to small claims, they lost because all the rules had been followed, ie, passing on the outside

i thought it was a bit shit really, but i have always thought what goes on the track stays there, but i come from a racing background, so my thoughts maybe different from someone that is doing a trackday from a road riders perspective.

[scott2ride]

They the insurance companies already run a 'tit for tat' system between them and they already take into account that other vehicles may be involved in an accident, on or off track. believe me I know, I have an insurance brokerage and deal with it all the time. So rest assured there are many insurance claims for incidents on the track and when a second party is at fault the insurance company will likely seek to recover damages from that party. Most of us just dont hear about it because it is not exactly something that is widely publicised. Im not insured for my trackday bike on the track so claiming is not an option for me.

But as far as comparisons to America go, dont be concerned. The insurance law act in NZ is quite different and we dont have the same facility to sue for punitive damages here. In the US you can make all sorts of claims and get paid for emotional damage etc. But here you have to prove a real loss. So technically you can claim back costs of repairs, but bugger all else. Then you have to way up the cost of going down that route and the time etc. Hence not normally viable unless large sums are involved. So worry, we wont be turning into the USA or Oz any time soon.

As far as Bryce being asked to leave, well I took the liberty of checking with Darren and you are partially correct. Darren said he WAS going to ask Bryce to leave but when he got there found he was leaving anyway, so he didnt need to ask him to leave. He also said he would likely black list him for future events involving the Cali SB School and Cali track days.

Sorry to contradict here, but Bryces father already admitted he never saw the incident. He may have been in the 'vicinity', but he didnt see it. However a number of officials and several riders on the track most definitely DID see the whole thing.

I realise he is your mate etc so you feel the need to defend him. I respect that.

But it was, what it was... nothing more, nothing less.

He and I will never be mates, but Im not angry with him either and dont have any personal malice towards him. So its not like Im going to get shitty and smack him one if I bump into him.


Im off home now to start some repairs on the beast as my body is getting somewhat better and only a few aches in the neck and shoulder. So cat chew late R.

[scott2ride]

Hi Scott
I dont know if it was the same incident, but it sounds similar.

I was told of another last night that was successful in a claim for $3k. No doubt different circumstances though.

So yep, these insurance claims and cases in small claims etc do go on regularly, just they tend to be behind closed doors. Its case by case and all tend to be small stuff.

At the end of the day I guess the best we all can do on the track is ride to the rules of the day and dont be idiots and then if we crash, then at least we did it with best intentions and best endeavors.

Just make sure not to get shitty with someone who you thought took your line and dont go and knock them off their bike on the next corner or you will end up in small claims or similar and that could be costly.

Ok... now Im off home

[scott411]

sounds like it may be more comman than we realise, i think your right tho, stick to the track days rules, it is not a race day, or an open practice,

[scott147]

i was following scott2ride down the chute when it happened, so i saw the hole thing as it unfolded. the other guy was 100 percent at fault. dont forget at riders briefing the rules were 2m apart at all times. forget everything else scott2ride was in front the other guy was behind him therefore its his responsiblity to maintain the seperation of the bikes. nothing else matters really. there was no strange moves going on from scott2ride and he was not running wide as it was the start the second lap and everyone was still warming up.
what i want to know is why the other guy came out wide and cut us all off, its a track day not racing. i ve been racing for a fair bit of time so i ve seen all sorts of moves and this wasnt the best what more it wasnt called for in the slightest.

[bucketracer]

were taking similar lines but particularly 1 of the LC's would stuff it up the inside on slow corners on a really tight line. So you choose your spot, tip in, completely unaware of anyone close behind, you get within a bikelength of the apex at maximum lean and suddenly this LC appears virtually rubbing shoulders. You have no option but to stand it up and hope like shit you don't run off the track. The guy watches too much MotoGP.

A trick learn't at buckets,........next time your racing.....so as to be able to hold your line, move your bum over and sit or lean on them if you can, put all your weight on them........works a treat and if they are really pissing you off, try pushing their handle bar back with your elbow......they will button off and if they lose it, and hit your bike, odds are you will stay on and they won't. I guarantee they won't try to stuff it up the inside again, any time soon.

[gixerracer]

Or I will just pick my bike up and run into you and if that dont work I will smash side ways into you at the next corner. Some road racers may be a bit harder than your bucket competitors perhaps[QUOTE=bucketracer;1129727221]

A trick learn't at buckets,........next time your racing.....so as to be able to hold your line, move your bum over and sit or lean on them if you can, put all your weight on them........works a treat and if they are really pissing you off, try pushing their handle bar back with your elbow......they will button off and if they lose it, and hit your bike, odds are you will stay on and they won't. I garantee they won't stuff it up the inside again, any time soon.

[bucketracer]

Or I will just pick my bike up and run into you and if that dont work I will smash side ways into you at the next corner. Some road racers may be a bit harder than your bucket competitors perhaps

I suspect you underestimate how hard bucket racers are......buckets, is where the art of close racing and argy-bargy while riding on the edge is learnt...........

[budda]

I suspect you underestimate how hard bucket racers are......buckets is where the art of close racing is learnt...........

Oh DEAR .... play nicely, children