Police killing us again!

[Spearfish]

The fact that a hill or obstruction to vision was involved makes things a bit tricky.
Yes the cop shouldn't have turned no argument there especially if he was not able to maintain 100 meters clear road throughout the manoeuvre and that will come out in the investigation.
But the rider has to be able to stop within the space available to him, in this case he wasn't robbed of the space to stop because he never new he had it in the first place just assumed like we all do from time to time?

So this cop gets busted and cops aren't allowed to u turn any more, does that fix the problem so it could never happen again or will just not be a cop next time? Considering the number of road users left I cant see how it will.
What if it wasn't a cop car that was hidden by the brow of the hill, it could have been anything, do we have to ban breaking down, fallen trees, rubbish bins on windy days, stock, tractors slower vehicles, road works, slips?

[Coldrider]

Bridgman had to accept that he was the main person responsible for what happened.
No different to this case

Exactly, the other factors questioned are just sideshows, but more importantly, the judge did not agree with Katman.

[trustme]

The fact that a hill or obstruction to vision was involved makes things a bit tricky.
Yes the cop shouldn't have turned no argument there especially if he was not able to maintain 100 meters clear road throughout the manoeuvre and that will come out in the investigation.
But the rider has to be able to stop within the space available to him, in this case he wasn't robbed of the space to stop because he never new he had it in the first place just assumed like we all do from time to time?

So this cop gets busted and cops aren't allowed to u turn any more, does that fix the problem so it could never happen again or will just not be a cop next time? Considering the number of road users left I cant see how it will.
What if it wasn't a cop car that was hidden by the brow of the hill, it could have been anything, do we have to ban breaking down, fallen trees, rubbish bins on windy days, stock, tractors slower vehicles, road works, slips?

Please stop common sense from getting in the way of a damn good cop bashing thread

[miloking]

So who's sent an email showing your concern to the ministers concerned?Instead of just whining to the pack.
Do it now


j.collins@ministers.govt.nz
steven.joyce@national.org.nz

Got my reply today after i finaly calmed down enough to write sensible email

Dear Mr King
The Hon Judith Collins, Minister of Police, has asked me to acknowledge and thank you for your correspondence of 22 April 2010, received by this office on 22 April 2010, regarding police pursuit policy.
The Minister has asked officials for advice on this matter. You will receive a response as soon as possible.

Yours sincerely

Inspector Troy Nicholson
Police Private Secretary

[idleidolidyll]

i HAVE had mazda bounty utes in the past, and i KNOW that they are indeed capable of speeds in excess of 160km/h

KNOW in caps is a big call.

I KNOW that all my vehicles read well high on the speedo (confirmed with Garmin GPS on long straights); the Ssangyong reads approx 10% high or in numbers; when it says 160, its only doing 144.
The beemer is about the same, the KTM is not as bad but still high. Wifies Toyota is a bald faced liar like most Jap vehicles.

If you managed to get your Bounty to read 180, that MIGHT be around 160 in reality.

The latest bt-50 bounty 3 litre diesel, according to Mazda, makes less HP than my vehicle but more torque and its certainly less aerodynamic.
Torque = acceleration but HP and aerodynamics give top speed.

I still very much doubt the Bounty actually can hit speeds in excess of 160kph

The driver said he was going a bit over the speed limit, the cop said 154; i have seen cops lie in potentially less punative situations than this and lean toward the drivers statement as fact

[Mr Merde]

Got my reply today after i finaly calmed down enough to write sensible email

Dear Mr King
The Hon Judith Collins, Minister of Police, has asked me to acknowledge and thank you for your correspondence of 22 April 2010, received by this office on 22 April 2010, regarding police pursuit policy.
The Minister has asked officials for advice on this matter. You will receive a response as soon as possible.

Yours sincerely

Inspector Troy Nicholson
Police Private Secretary

Dont expect a lot from Judith Collins. I've e-mailed her in the past on other matters and she has never replied herself. She always gets someone elkse to tell you what she thinks.

She seems incapable of having an opinion or expressing her own views in any matter.

[bogan]

So this cop gets busted and cops aren't allowed to u turn any more, does that fix the problem so it could never happen again or will just not be a cop next time? Considering the number of road users left I cant see how it will.
What if it wasn't a cop car that was hidden by the brow of the hill, it could have been anything, do we have to ban breaking down, fallen trees, rubbish bins on windy days, stock, tractors slower vehicles, road works, slips?

No it doesnt completely fix the problem, but on the other hand, do you really want cops to think "well dangerous things already occur on the road, what does it matter if we add one more?" as that seems to be the resoning behind your argument.
An the other examples, break downs generally stop off to the side of the road as much as possible and at the bottom of slopes, fallen trees generally occur after bad weather, stock you see the tracks and a good number of cockies put out cones or drench containers etc, slower vehicles can be seen going over the top of such hills from a distance, road works are marked, slips again generally after bad weather. Point is, if it was policy to only do u-turns where it was safe, and if that policy was adhered to, Paul Brown would be alive today, isn't that reason enough?

[miloking]

i HAVE had mazda bounty utes in the past, and i KNOW that they are indeed capable of speeds in excess of 160km/h

feel free to be surprised

remember assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups

Irony of your post is to assume that all mazda bounty utes are the same vehicle and then present that opinion as a fact!

Also it means fuck all if he did 112km/h or 154km/h or 327 ...fact is Mr.Jackson either deserves a ticket or not (depending if there is an evidence of the 154 or its something cop made up, remember cop saw silver ute and Mr.Jakcson drives green...so i dont know how he can prove that he saw a number plate)

Its just a distraction from a real issue here!

[Spearfish]

I doesn't matter what speed the ute was doing, the cop could just as easily have turned because he saw a better place to take a leak, or a known crim that is wanted for bike thefts , or his wife with someone else...or a Labrador was driving...

[miloking]

Dont expect a lot from Judith Collins. I've e-mailed her in the past on other matters and she has never replied herself. She always gets someone elkse to tell you what she thinks.

She seems incapable of having an opinion or expressing her own views in any matter.

Thats fine with me, as long as she gets "someone else" to do something about this issue (also doesnt that make her redundant...since she doesnt realy do much else apart from emotional statements on tv about crushing crapy cars?)

[blackdog]

Irony of your post is to assume that all mazda bounty utes are the same vehicle and then present that opinion as a fact!

Also it means fuck all if he did 112km/h or 154km/h or 327 ...fact is Mr.Jackson either deserves a ticket or not (depending if there is an evidence of the 154 or its something cop made up)

Its just a distraction from a real issue here!

point taken

i know that the vehicle I was driving was capable of speeds in excess of 160km/h

[bogan]

Irony of your post is to assume that all mazda bounty utes are the same vehicle and then present that opinion as a fact!

Also it means fuck all if he did 112km/h or 154km/h or 327 ...fact is Mr.Jackson either deserves a ticket or not (depending if there is an evidence of the 154 or its something cop made up)

Its just a distraction from a real issue here!

it's being used as a tenuous link to show the bike must have also been speeding, ute speeds, bike assumed to be following him, so assumed bike also speeding, then you must also assume that the bike also was speeding when going over the blind crest (he could easily catch up just speeding on the clear vis bits), so lots of assumptions, and you know what they say about those.

[miloking]

point taken

i know that the vehicle I was driving was capable of speeds in excess of 160km/h

At the same time, i would like for the investigators to actualy borrow Mr.Jacksons ute and drive it over the crest with same amount of load it had in it on the day of the accident, for all we know it can do 154 up that hill

....but if it does is it going to simply justify the actions of the cop to the public?

[Smifffy]

A visit with the jury to the scene of the crash during Bridgman's trial had only served to "underscore the magnitude of your error," the judge said.

It had been a "totally inappropriate place to undertake such a manoeuvre".

Defence lawyer Garry Barkle said Bridgman's offending resulted from a split second decision to pursue a speeding motorcyclist as part of local and national police policies to combat speed but said that it was relevant to sentencing that Collins and Russel were travelling "at a speed beyond 100kmh".

(emphasis mine)

Surely it is time for some education that combatting speed does not absolve an officer of sound judgement and safe driving.

"mean-spirited and derisory." - I think that's in the SOPs as well, isn't it Leo?

[Jonno.]

I doesn't matter what speed the ute was doing, the cop could just as easily have turned because he saw a better place to take a leak, or a known crim that is wanted for bike thefts , or his wife with someone else...or a Labrador was driving...

Why did he park on a blind hill? No one forced him to park there.