Teachers only day

[Bald Eagle]

I think your ratios are out - given say a 5 hour teaching day - you are saying that they need a 40 hour week to prepare for a single day. So thats 5 weeks prep for every actual week at school. Lets say they teach for 35 weeks per year - thats 210 weeks per year (including classroom delivery - and thats without the extra work you mention.

210 weeks at 40 hours per week is 8400 hours. Divide that into a 52 week year then thats 161 hours per week - given that the teachers must work 7 days a week all they have to do is work 23 hours per day (plus all the other work you mention).

I hope you dont teach maths.

The 8 to 1 is a general ratio only not an absolute and was intended to stress the fact that despite the popular misconception teachers are not only employed to work in a classroom for 5 hours a day with lots of lovely free time and holidays.

A comparison could be made with our judges who only sit in court a few hours a day a few days a week but receive much better remuneration. The expectation that they should be in court in session for 40 hours a week would create an outcry of epic proportions.

Or even worse if we expected our members of parliament to work "full time"

[Tank]

The 8 to 1 is a general ratio only not an absolute and was intended to stress the fact that despite the popular misconception teachers are not only employed to work in a classroom for 5 hours a day with lots of lovely free time and holidays.
:

Its not that its "not an absolute" - its that its simply inaccurate and bullshit in the extreme - as the numbers make out.

You can argue the extra work - but cannot put forward numbers as 'accepted truths' when they have no basis in fact - it diminishes your argument.

[oldrider]

You obviously know nothing about what is required to actually deliver teaching in the classroom. A general ratio of 8 hours preparation time per 1 hour of classroom delivery, plus endless admin reporting returns to govt for ncea and meetings / reporting to parents / marking etc. If you divided the actual hours worked by a teacher into their current salary they are working for well below minimum wage.

OK, everybody else is stupid and know nothing about what is required to actually deliver teaching in the class room!

Did it ever occur to you that every one of us has been a customer of that service at some time in our lives, so we do have knowledge of the quality of service provided!

However, most of us agree that teachers employment contract conditions are less than satisfactory, you guy's tell us so at every opportunity!

If it's not working for you, change it, there is always another way.

If you keep on doing the same thing and expect a different result, you are surely deluding yourselves!

The people you are paying your hard earned money to in order to negotiate your employment conditions are obviously not giving you value for money!

That would seem to me to be an appropriate place to start making some changes.

[Squiggles]

That would seem to me to be an appropriate place to start making some changes.

Can you imagine the bitching if they all walked out for a few weeks? Just look at the whinging here from when they take a day off for training purposes!

[watermellon]

Hope things improve for you "soon".

Can you tell me how your employment at your school works? (no names or anything like that) How does the process work? Do you work for the Principal, the board etc?

Do they/you have any control/input over your agreement for conditions and/or remuneration, performance etc?

Same collective agreement as most other teachers. Too may bosses with too many agendas. Not every day is as bad as I've painted it. Just having a shit time at the moment.

You'd be naive to believe all teachers are created equal. Some are, frankly, f*****g useless. Some and just wonderful. It comes down to how much your heart's in it and how much you can tune-out the BS.

[Love my Bonnie]

I used to moan like hell about teacher only days.....
Until I became a teacher!!

Thank god for teacher only days I say

[ukiwi]

I used to moan like hell about teacher only days.....
Until I became a teacher!!

Thank god for teacher only days I say

I guess its all about walking in another mans shoes (or womans).

I for one would welcome a performance related contract, and getting rid of teacher only days. However I can see no way of rating my own or any other teachers performance and as such can never see it even being considered and I have no say in the allocation of teacher only days, so, at the risk of making oldrider head explode, I guess I have to accept things as they are.

That said I consider myself very lucky in that I love my job and often feel my worst day at work is still a lot better than some peoples best.

[doc]

Can you imagine the bitching if they all walked out for a few weeks? Just look at the whinging here from when they take a day off for training purposes!

Fark I'm not complaining Im just trying to understand why teachers think we should be grateful that they can get timeout from the job to catch up, when most the other professions are not in the position to go to work and not actually do their job. Police and nurses for example, and they dont get as much time off as teachers do. Plus from what I understand they are on similiar salaries. FWIW I believe those jobs are undervalued . Unfortunately we live in a society that values moneylenders and ticket clippers more.

[Milts]

Unfortunately we live in a society that values moneylenders and ticket clippers more.

No. We live in an economic system that favours those with resources and market or management knowledge over those with trade skills.

[oldrider]

I for one would welcome a performance related contract, and getting rid of teacher only days. However I can see no way of rating my own or any other teachers performance and as such can never see it even being considered and I have no say in the allocation of teacher only days, so, at the risk of making oldrider head explode, I guess I have to accept things as they are.
That said I consider myself very lucky in that I love my job and often feel my worst day at work is still a lot better than some peoples best.

My head wont explode!

It's got nothing to do with me, I am finished working and have no axe to grind either way, I am only trying to give you a different point of view.

As an employer, I valued the people that worked in my area of responsibility, I could not succeed without them, so I always worked hard to build a partnership with them.

During our lives we spend (on average) one third of our lives at work, I believe it should be as enjoyable as we can make it.

I believe people should look forward to being at work each day and to be just as happy as they are in the other two thirds of their day.

We only get one shot at life and I don't let anyone fuck up my shot, so why should I fuck it up for anyone else!

Every manager should strive to be supported by the most intelligent, productive and reliable people they can find.

If all my direct reports were only as intelligent as me, I would consider myself in very deep shit!

Unfortunately there are some managers (especially in NZ) who don't understand the value in that!

In my humble experience, the closer the "empowerment" of the manager/employee relationship, the stronger and more productive that relationship bond will be.

People thrive on trust and responsibility, the more you give them the hungrier (and happier) they are for more!

The best way for them to get more is by working smarter and the more they apply themselves to the job, the smarter they get and the more valuable they become.

Tangible value of contribution to the agreed goals of the business or service should be reflected in remuneration.

Individual employment contracts between manager and employee are the best way of expressing the value of that relationship to the realisation of the stated goals of governance of the business or service involved.

Individual employment contracts are not anti union, every employee has the right to be represented by whoever they wish!

If the employee does not have the confidence and capability to represent themselves, I would provide the training to bring them up to the requirements, after which I would expect them to have and to exercise that skill base.

Why would I employ someone to represent and make decisions for the company,when they can't do it for themselves!

If that sounds scary, then it is, nobody ever said life should be easy but it should be enjoyable and rewarding!

Sound like Utopia? Sure, why not?

I think schools and schoolteachers should be excellent candidates for "empowered" individual employment contracts and every post I read or conversation I have with them convinces me how desperately they need a change!

Just my personal opinion, nothing more or less.

[scracha]

Have the teachers not got enough time to do this on other than school days. Mind you, I suppose they only get about 12 weeks holiday a year and are only actually teaching 5 hours a day!!!

Funny how many experts there are on Teaching that have never set foot on the coalface.

5 hours teaching != 5 hours work.

I suppose you also think Valentino Rossi only works 54 days a year?

[rapid van cleef]

'Fark I'm not complaining Im just trying to understand why teachers think we should be grateful that they can get timeout from the job to catch up, when most the other professions are not in the position to go to work and not actually do their job. Police and nurses for example, and they dont get as much time off as teachers do. Plus from what I understand they are on similiar salaries. FWIW I believe those jobs are undervalued . Unfortunately we live in a society that values moneylenders and ticket clippers more'....


time off?

i work through every morning break and through every lunchtime and usually dont leave school til around 5 pm. then i ll spend time doing school prep etc at home in the evenings and weekends. usually have stuff going on in school at weekends too.

teachers do not get paid for running extra curricular groups, what ever they maybe. then theres at least half of all holidays working

those that have not done the job, will never know..simple as that

[ukiwi]

Oldrider, your opinion is your opinion, however when you make the statements that you made without any knowledge or experience of the profession you were targeting your opinion is worthless.
Now before you release a torrent of blow hard bollocks about opinions being a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty, understand this. You can have an opinion regrding individual contracts and performance related blah blah blah, what you shouldnt do is acuse a group of hard working professional people of not having the balls or itelligence to handle their own affairs and as such should not be entrusted with the role they have.
If you are seriously concerned about your grandchildren homeschool them, see how easy it really is.

[oldrider]

Oldrider, your opinion is your opinion, however when you make the statements that you made without any knowledge or experience of the profession you were targeting your opinion is worthless.
Now before you release a torrent of blow hard bollocks about opinions being a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty, understand this. You can have an opinion regrding individual contracts and performance related blah blah blah, what you shouldnt do is acuse a group of hard working professional people of not having the balls or itelligence to handle their own affairs and as such should not be entrusted with the role they have.
If you are seriously concerned about your grandchildren homeschool them, see how easy it really is.

This is all getting a bit emotional and you are right, it doesn't really concern me, except that all the information most of us have about you guy's and your working conditions comes directly from yourselves!

You never stop grizzling about how hard done by you are and how intelligent you have to be and how under appreciated you are etc etc etc!

I offered a solution based on information given to me by the people who own the problem, nothing more, nothing less, thank you for the lesson on how to cry wolf!

[rapid van cleef]

it wasnt teachers that started this thread. and we have not been saying oh how horrible our jobs are. simply stating facts. if no - one made a misguided or i ll - infomed comment, i doubt anyone would have said anything to put em right by telling them how it is. we know hor difficult it is. i dont go home and tell me wife how hard me job is. i love it. it just boils my piss when people that dont know what they are talking about make damming statements