The return of Bucket Sidecars!

[Gazzza]

Hi there, just wondering if any one remembers the days of bucket sidecars. We used to run them many years ago up in Whangarei but havent seen one in years. I was hoping to get two of them up to Mt Wellington the next practice day in June. The blue rig (if my attachments have worked) is an old one but on its day is a good runner. The white rig is just about finished and to be honest is a handful, note to potential builders include some rake at the front or have a very twitchy machine. If all goes well both rigs will be at the track and if any one wants to have a go at swinging all good. Really hope we can get a few people keen and we can see the days of the sidecar again.

[speedpro]

Very interesting rear axle arrangement, lots of good reasons for doing it that way. The white one definitely looks like it needs more rake on the front. They're a lot of hard work to get round Mt Wgtn. We used to run a 1/2hr sidecar race at the "2hr meeting" and I had to have a little rest before I could get out of ours.

[Gazzza]

Yep more rake, my testing (around the street -ekkk) made it clear that cornering is great, its just those bits that connect the straights that may be a handfull...
The rear axle runs the rim brake sprocket and fuel pump, it seems a good way to get it all together. The blue rig has the same arrangment. I brought an old kart then ratted it for most the running gear, got a lot of free almost new tyres from a kart shop. Good grief a half hour sidecar meet would take a lot out of you.

[woodyracer]

Fark they are cool, id love to have a go!, also good idea using gokart tires--as you can get nice sticky ones

[Gazzza]

Yep the kart tires are the ones. Years ago a lot of guys went for mini wheels, these were ok and easier to set up I guess but the weight would have been an issue, plus you would have had only std road tires to go with. If any one wants a go on the day just let me know and hop on.

[Buckets4Me]

can you take more photos specialy of the frame frount end and egnine mounting
I can see a gp125 coming soon (I'm already looking for a kart frame)

[Gazzza]

No probs, the front end is an old GT125 steering head, easy to weld in something like that than trying to make a bespoke front. The blue rig used exhaust tube flanged and pressed in bearings. The engine mounts are longish so the engine can be rocked back and foward using a turnbuckle, this way you can get is just right for tensioning the chain.
Please forgive some of the rough welds its the peril of using gassless Mig, one sure way to get ugly welds.

[schrodingers cat]

They look like a power of fun! Rather be holding the handlebars than holding on tho!

[NOID]

im going to the shed, got 3 old ride on lawn mowers out in the paddock, a tone of old scape metal and a welder !!! mean

[boostin]

I have a feeling that the Auckland Uni SMC has a couple of bucket sidecars.

[Squiggles]

I have a feeling that the Auckland Uni SMC has a couple of bucket sidecars.

So we've got a month to get one of ours out there? I blew up the prototype electronic shifter =\

[schrodingers cat]

Please don't take this the wrong way but can I suggest
1. You spend $16 on a welding helmet OR
2. Spend the money on some beer to bribe a more experienced welder to tidy up the welding OR
3. Consider bronze welding the frame

Whilst MIG welding is simple in the sense that you turn it on. pull the trigger and sparks fly it isn't the ideal technique for less experienced folks. Even really experienced welders get caught out with lack of root and weld edge fusion (i.e. built in cracks) because it is easy to apply molten filler wire but never achieve sufficient heat to unsure fusion in the parent metal. With gas welding or it's electric cousin TIG the weld pool is more visable and the welder is more concerned about the root fusion.
The other option as I mentioned is bronzing.
It has a lot od benefits - again it is a slower technique so the welder can see what is going on. It the join is unsatisfactory reapply heat, wirebrush the filler off and start again! The size of the filler bead acts as a gusset and the joint preparation (fits) are less critical.

It is also possible to get silicon/bronze or ali/bronze wire for your MIG... It slows the weld down also and requires less heat.

I'm not trying to be a smart ass here because you're actually doin this thing!
Its just that I can see a bit of heartbreak and/or unreliability in front of you...

[Kickaha]

The other option as I mentioned is bronzing.
It has a lot od benefits - again it is a slower technique so the welder can see what is going on. It the join is unsatisfactory reapply heat, wirebrush the filler off and start again! The size of the filler bead acts as a gusset and the joint preparation (fits) are less critical.

bronzing is (or was until recently) still used in the construction of top level F2 sidecars that regulary compete at the Isle of man, mostly I would expect for ease of repair

[gatch]

I was going to tig up a chromoly subframe at work. But without the appropriate filler wire I won't go near it. So I think I'll bronze it. I mentioned it to my "welder" flatmate, who nearly had a heart attack. BRONZE BRONZE he yells.. It'll fall apart as soon as you sit on it !!

Poor fool.

[schrodingers cat]

I was going to tig up a chromoly subframe at work. But without the appropriate filler wire I won't go near it. So I think I'll bronze it. I mentioned it to my "welder" flatmate, who nearly had a heart attack. BRONZE BRONZE he yells.. It'll fall apart as soon as you sit on it !!

Poor fool.

4130 Cho - Mo is more than happy being welded with ER 70S-6 filler wire. i.e Mig wire. Ask your welding rep if you don't believe me. With proper design the pre-heat / post heat isn't as critical as many would have you believe. Certainly a wave over with a air/LPG torch to maybe 80 degrees + will help minimise distortion and unsure the heat afected zone is wider and therefore minimise cracking.

Re your flatmate. There ae welders and there are welders. Perhaps he could open his eyes or even go back to school. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I is a poor thing and shouldn't be listened to. 28 years of fabrication, 17 of them in professional motorsport up to and including F1 is meaningless in the face of such certainty...