Dear Mr English, I don't want a tax cut

[mashman]

When is a tax cut not a tax cut? when delivered by dorks like key and co. Whats up with NZ? seems to be determined to do as badly as possible while whinging as much as possible and complaining about it to no one in particular. shoot the cunts and start again!

excellent strategy ... but as long as it placates the masses noone will give a shit... am sure NZ is full of people that will deny that the current robbing of Peter to pay Paul is a bad thing, because tax cuts are always good????????... did someone slip a mental bromide into the water????? at the end of the day, some have already mentioned, money can not be used to solve our social issues... social issues that need a "social policy"... and not just a tinkering with the tax system (all of the taxes collected) as has gone on for decades/centuries/millenia... Seriously, how can you support a system that has been proven not to work if not because it's better the devil you know (because you can't be arsed... lazy unimaginative baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaastards)... it obviously doesn't work...(yes ticketyfuckinboo) and that our leaders are on the money (pun intended) when it comes to looking after the people of New Zealand... it's all arse about face... more money is not the solution, and throughout history has been proven not to work for anyone... we have the ability to print as much money as we like, yet there are those that stop us from doing it... why? because it affects the global market economy (fucking ignorant bastards)... who gives a shit about the people? Anyone??? probably not... because it's a system that doesn't touch a single facet of daily life... and YOU refuse to put it down...

True though... whinging does make one feel so much better... funny that there's noone that you can actually complain to...

[shrub]

Well said Mashman. Modern New Zealanders remind me of the people in Brave New World, happily swallowing whatever they're given. Our masters tell us tax cuts will make the world a better place and encourage growth despite there being no evidence I am aware of to support that argument, so we happily take a few extra dollars a week and we're all happy.

[MisterD]

Our masters tell us tax cuts will make the world a better place and encourage growth despite there being no evidence I am aware of to support that argument

Really? Pete Creswell debunks the lefty arguments..

[Oscar]

excellent strategy ... but as long as it placates the masses noone will give a shit... am sure NZ is full of people that will deny that the current robbing of Peter to pay Paul is a bad thing, because tax cuts are always good????????... did someone slip a mental bromide into the water????? at the end of the day, some have already mentioned, money can not be used to solve our social issues... social issues that need a "social policy"... and not just a tinkering with the tax system (all of the taxes collected) as has gone on for decades/centuries/millenia... Seriously, how can you support a system that has been proven not to work if not because it's better the devil you know (because you can't be arsed... lazy unimaginative baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaastards)... it obviously doesn't work...(yes ticketyfuckinboo) and that our leaders are on the money (pun intended) when it comes to looking after the people of New Zealand... it's all arse about face... more money is not the solution, and throughout history has been proven not to work for anyone... we have the ability to print as much money as we like, yet there are those that stop us from doing it... why? because it affects the global market economy (fucking ignorant bastards)... who gives a shit about the people? Anyone??? probably not... because it's a system that doesn't touch a single facet of daily life... and YOU refuse to put it down...

True though... whinging does make one feel so much better... funny that there's noone that you can actually complain to...

Speaking of lazy unimaginative bastards, do you speak in anything but slogans?
Why don't you drop the lefty propaganda manual and say what you would do?

For example, what does this mean?

... social issues that need a "social policy"...

And what would you do about it?

[mashman]

Speaking of lazy unimaginative bastards, do you speak in anything but slogans?
Why don't you drop the lefty propaganda manual and say what you would do?

For example, what does this mean?

And what would you do about it?

glad you missed my point... I wouldn't have expected anything more from someone who is incapable of understanding that some people don't hold any allegiance to ANY political party...

social issues that need a "social policy"... to me, it means no matter what the cost, it should be done as it's better for all concerned...

I've already proposed my solution in several places on the forum, a very simple concept, remove the financial system from the country and try something entirely different... whilst i don't have all of the answers, I have a quite few (wrong or not... noone will get around the table to discuss them), including an approach to appease the global "powers", that we'd still be able to punch well above our weight in the financial world, even without having a financial system in NZ...

Can you figure out how that woud work and the associated benefits? I'm guessing not.

[SPman]

we have the ability to print as much money as we like,

Well, if it's good enough for the US Federal Reserve.......

[Brian d marge]

Really? Pete Creswell debunks the lefty arguments..

I would agree with that long done are the days when farming was lucrative , in other words More of us have got to produce more valuable stuff and I think the farming sector is limited
Weta is one avenue, Fish Farming might be another
either way The productivity per person must at least double ,( Smarter not harder )

Stephen

[Oscar]

glad you missed my point... I wouldn't have expected anything more from someone who is incapable of understanding that some people don't hold any allegiance to ANY political party...

social issues that need a "social policy"... to me, it means no matter what the cost, it should be done as it's better for all concerned...

I've already proposed my solution in several places on the forum, a very simple concept, remove the financial system from the country and try something entirely different... whilst i don't have all of the answers, I have a quite few (wrong or not... noone will get around the table to discuss them), including an approach to appease the global "powers", that we'd still be able to punch well above our weight in the financial world, even without having a financial system in NZ...

Can you figure out how that woud work and the associated benefits? I'm guessing not.

Missed your point?
You have a point?
You really should join a political party, that is one of the best examples of taking several paragraphs to say nothing I have seen outside a party manifesto. I particularly love the last bit where you are condescending about my inability to work the benefits of system that you admit you have no details for. Your pompous brand of hot air would play well in Wellington.


And why does the fact that I question with your incoherent ramblings, make me a party stooge?
It doesn't - it should be an indication to you that you should perhaps check you posts for coherence and/or put the bong down.

[Ixion]

For example, what does this mean?
... social issues that need a "social policy"...
And what would you do about it?

Too many bludgers milking the system.

Labour camps and Kalasnikovs.

Sorted. Next question

[mashman]

Missed your point?
You have a point?
You really should join a political party, that is one of the best examples of taking several paragraphs to say nothing I have seen outside a party manifesto. I particularly love the last bit where you are condescending about my inability to work the benefits of system that you admit you have no details for. Your pompous brand of hot air would play well in Wellington.


And why does the fact that I question with your incoherent ramblings, make me a party stooge?
It doesn't - it should be an indication to you that you should perhaps check you posts for coherence and/or put the bong down.

Yes.
Yes.

No I shouldn't... Translate it anyway you like... I've yet to see any party manifesto containing policies on the removal of the financial system, you know different, so i'll bow to your experience. If, as you freely admit, you can't decipher my pompous incoherent ravings, then I stand by my statement that you would be unable to figure out how "my" system would work and the associated benefits... what other conclusion could I come to?

Never said you were a stooge... but you read me how you read me... I can't change that...

I gave you the basic idea... figure the rest out for yourself and ignore my blahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Oscar]

Yes.
Yes.

No I shouldn't... Translate it anyway you like... I've yet to see any party manifesto containing policies on the removal of the financial system, you know different, so i'll bow to your experience. If, as you freely admit, you can't decipher my pompous incoherent ravings, then I stand by my statement that you would be unable to figure out how "my" system would work and the associated benefits... what other conclusion could I come to?

Never said you were a stooge... but you read me how you read me... I can't change that...

I gave you the basic idea... figure the rest out for yourself and ignore my blahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Your noise to signal ratio is a problem.
It's your idea, so instead of constantly using the same pat slogans, why don't you explain it?

Simply advocating "The removal of the financial system" and saying "..social issues that need a "social policy"..." doesn't make a whole bunch of sense.
Tell us how it works.

[mashman]

Your noise to signal ratio is a problem.
It's your idea, so instead of constantly using the same pat slogans, why don't you explain it?

Simply advocating "The removal of the financial system" and saying "..social issues that need a "social policy"..." doesn't make a whole bunch of sense.
Tell us how it works.

Fair enough...

bit long winded in places i'm afraid, but you'll get the idea pretty quickly... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...the-NZ-public.

I did have a 20 year plan lying around somewhere, but seem to have misplaced it...

[davereid]

Our masters tell us tax cuts will make the world a better place and encourage growth despite there being no evidence I am aware of to support that argument, so we happily take a few extra dollars a week and we're all happy.

There is plenty of evidence that lower taxes produce growth. I have more money. I put some in the bank and it loaned to someone else, and its value to me grows. I put some in shares, and if I invest wisely, the value to me grows, as the the business I invested in. I spend some, and it creates employment.

Of course if the government decreases taxes but borrows to cover the shortfall we are worse off. As we will have to be taxed for both the money spent, and the interest on it.

With regard to the "printing of money" its a very popular from of taxation.

Look at it like this.

You grow a ton of potatoes. You sell them for $1000. The tax-man takes $500. 50% of your wealth has been destroyed.

You grow a ton of potatoes. You sell them for $1000. The tax-man prints himself $1000. 50% of your wealth has been destroyed.

[Ixion]

Almost all taxation revenue is spent on purposes that are not productive. They may be desireable, or necessary, eg defence, but seldom do they actually produce anything (there are exceptions of course). So, the amount removed as tax from the pool of national wealth comprises 'dead' money.So it is fair to say, regardless of what 'ism' one supports, that low taxes are a good thing.

But , alas, there is no free lunch. It is unlikely that the shade of the old blind lady who just died of hunger, in the libertarian tax free paradise, thinks it such a good thing

There will always be the halt, the blind, the maim. And a modern society that left them to starve in the gutter would be reprehensible indeed.

And the long experience of history shows quite clearly that unless such unfortunates are provided for by the state, all too often they won't be provided for at all.

So the practical reality is that taxation in some form (call it taxes, tithes, poor-law rates, what you will) is unavoidable.

The problem is when the merciful provision intended for those too disabled to provide for themselves, becomes captured by those too lazy to provide for themselves.

And the long experience of history shows quite clearly that unless such reprobates are dealt to by the state, all too often they will sit back in lazy sloth.

Socialism is often associated with benefits and the welfare state, but there is nothing inherent in the economic basis of socialism (even less communism) that dictates that. It is just a coincidence, by and large the people who were attracted to socialism and fought for it, were those who had seen at first hand the social evils of unfettered capitalism. So , when they got the chance , they determined that no more old ladies should die of hunger.

Unfortunately they were not so successful at ensuring that bludgers would not hi-jack the system. And the welfare state has no inherent mechanism to force the workshy to pull their weight. All that can be done is to try to make the benefits just sufficient to survive on, whilst low enough to be unattractive to those who have alternatives. It seldom works , and usually ends up with the worst of both worlds - benefits too low to provide adequately for the truely disabled, but high enough to remove the compulsion to work.

Which is why (one why) communism is the answer. Only communism can provide for the genuinely needy , and at the same get the bludgers to put their shulders to the wheel.

[mashman]

Which is why (one why) communism is the answer. Only communism can provide for the genuinely needy , and at the same get the bludgers to put their shulders to the wheel.

Unfortunately: The Declaration on Crimes of Communism is a declaration signed on 25 February 2010 by several prominent European politicians, former political prisoners, human rights advocates and historians, which calls for the condemnation of communism. It concluded the international conference Crimes of the Communist Regimes, that took place at the Czech Senate and the Office of the Government of the Czech Republic from 24 to 26 February 2010.

so I can only assume if you try to implement a communistic state in NZ, the world and his dog would come to stop it... never heard that on the news...