Pre89 Senior YSS Suspension FZR1000, Vic R1

[Robert Taylor]

Well, Well , Well, - all very interesting.
In a previous post on this thread i complimented Roberts Taylors products and services as one of the best in the industry - and i still vey much stand by that. However after the above i feel the need to explain further on why i have found the YSS product and their servicing to be more than adequate for my race uses.

To claim that my choice of service agent (Kerry Dukic) Dukic Suspension is QUOTE RT "has limited capacity and experience" - is somewhat perplexing considering that Dukic is the suspension tuner that fettled & won this years 600cc production championship and also my last two F3 championships.

As far as build quality is concerned - and the claim that this equipment is imminently "about to fall to pieces" - well, all i can say is that currently i have had no issues thus far- And even if we did - i have the utmost confidence in the YSS New Zealand importer and their service agent to sort any issues that arise. I have seen their investment in stock and parts and have also experienced their custom parts service and supply times - and they are as good as anyones in New Zealand.

Price !, :-) , - I own a company that imports millions of dollars of specialty components from all over the world (and we make a point of visiting all of our suppliers on a regular basis). I know for a fact people that some very very high quality products are manufactured in some of the poorer countries of this world. Just because they are poor doesnt mean they are stupid !, and they have access to world-class manufacturing machinery just like many other countries.
Often manufacturing costs are lower simply because their overhead costs (labour, Governmental control, local freight, export freight cost, limited union involvement, local raw materials) - all these things add up to reducing the cost of end products - and doesnt always mean greatly reduced quality.

To repeat - i am pleased with my YSS experience thus far, and hopefully there is more to come !, My advice to any racer or rider is to keep an open mind and consider all options when fitting any parts / consumables to your bike. This would included tyre options, brakepads, chains, Oils, Suspension, Fuels etc etc, new ideas or more efficient methods do evolve and appear on the market and sometimes these are worth considering.

Glen Williams

Fair reply Glenn but I still stand by my remarks of limited capacity and experience. That has shown through with some very disgruntled customers who werent recieving the attention promised and occured some very expensive damage due to suspension settings that to not put too fine a point on it were whacko. I saw inside the stuff afterwards and it was just disgusting, I dont want anyone with that lack of care working on the highest quality suspension.
If we are talking championships bring it on, theres a bit of catching up to do! But a measure of doing the job properly is not only about that ( its easy to pick race winners! ) its also about keeping your other customers happy and to stop them from struggling and crashing meeting after meeting after meeting.
We also struggle from time to time to get bikes dialed in quickly but we dont give up nor do we stray off on tangents that would be frowned upon from our main suppliers.
Caveat emptor.

[scracha]

Robert, as in any industry there's good, everage and cowboys. Regardless of this, it's not a good look to bad-mouth another supplier. By all means, say "that's a very shite job" etc etc when you come across something you've been ASKED to fix/check and most customers will put 2 and 2 together, tell their mates, etc etc. Word quickly gets around about poor quality and service. Similarly, word gets around about great service. You're really not doing yourself any favors here.

I always let my work do the talking for me. (and yes, sometimes I make cockups)

[Robert Taylor]

Robert, as in any industry there's good, everage and cowboys. Regardless of this, it's not a good look to bad-mouth another supplier. By all means, say "that's a very shite job" etc etc when you come across something you've been ASKED to fix/check and most customers will put 2 and 2 together, tell their mates, etc etc. Word quickly gets around about poor quality and service. Similarly, word gets around about great service. You're really not doing yourself any favors here.

I always let my work do the talking for me. (and yes, sometimes I make cockups)

Of course its always a fine line over what is ''badmouthing'' and what is also a legitimate need to say hey ''is the product being made out to be more than what it is'' etc. Given that I have personally and very recently come across some installations that had the capacity to at minimum injure I think its very legitimate to state so publicly. In this game of road racing and MX the power to send someone out on an unsafe bike is a real issue. When that happens with the products we distribute Im particularly concerned, but it is concerning that anyone goes out on an unsafe bike, irrespective of what p[roducts are fitted. A top rider nearly lost his life at a big international meeting a handful of years back due to an incorrect Ohlins steering damper kit being fitted, and poorly so by all accounts
So Ill take the credit for being up front and transparent, unfortunately there is a lot of skulduggery that goes on behind the scenes that I am well aware of. But I justify my actions on the pretence of safety and that people should have both eyes wide open when considering purchasing an unfamiliar product.

Indeed the price difference to our well proven Swedish product is now not that great, given the renegotiated prices we have from Sweden ( pointed out by SS90 )

Speaking about safety how the flipping heck did you ride that bike? The forks were awful. They are now straight and aswe speak Race Tech emulators ( with our specific road race settings ) and Ohlins springs are being installed. They will be night and day better.

[schrodingers cat]

Well it certainly seems that SS90 ( I have no idea who he is ) has reinforced that there is some substance to my ''evangelical crusade''. Another dissatisfied user that has analysed things a little further behind the facade and has had a less than satisfactory experience.

Ive seen this with rear drive chains, theres a lot of stuff made in mainland Asia, may on the face of it look the same but I beg to say that the tolerances and material quality is not as good, neither is the longevity.

Similarly where I see someone incapable of looking after ALL of his customers properly ( instead of a couple of race winners ) and ends up giving the product that I distribute a bad name Im not going to sweep it under the carpet.

No apologies for daring to say it as it actually is. Caveat emptor.

That is more than 30 words

[crazy man]

the first thing me and glen changed on the yss Suspension made 1.5 sec diffient in lap times so we new we were on a winner with yss. and it seem to have a lot finer setting than most Suspensions units.

[roadracingoldfart]

Speaking about safety how the flipping heck did you ride that bike? The forks were awful. They are now straight and aswe speak Race Tech emulators ( with our specific road race settings ) and Ohlins springs are being installed. They will be night and day better.

I never had an issue riding it Robert , mind you , im old and thats what i am used to (bent , musshy , inconsistant , underdamped etc) .

I straightened them after his monumental get off at Taupo and got them to within 4thou but Steve being Steve , he crashes a wee bit so they will bend again lol.
Hes made me a promise to keep it wheels down so heres to progress.

Paul.

[scracha]

Speaking about safety how the flipping heck did you ride that bike? The forks were awful. They are now straight and aswe speak Race Tech emulators ( with our specific road race settings ) and Ohlins springs are being installed. They will be night and day better.

It's all relative Robert. I'm used to $hite old bad handling bikes. Hey, when I got that bike I rode it for 4 rounds before realising the rear shock wasn't leaking simply because there was no oil left to leak out. A year later I realised the forks were bent as we couldn't get the damn things back on LOL. So bent the springs weren't doing their job. The bike handled 10x better after Paul got his hands on it so if it's good as you say it'll now handle 100x better.

As for safety, again, motorcyclists know the risks and if they get spat off due to over-pushing a poorly set-up bike, then as you often say, caveat emptor. Semper paratus and all that. A word or two directly to them about how something isn't set-up correctly will see you a lot better off in the long-term than publicly slating the installer. They're less likely to get defensive. You won't look like you're bitching. They may go back to the original installer to get it rectified (how the original installer handles this is up to them). They may get a third opinion. They're more likely to use you the next time.

Put simply, IMHO you'd be much better trying to tempt that fast old ginger fellah back to your fold with takes of how much faster he could be with your set-up than bad mouthing his current set-up.

ps. I hope my comments haven't increased my bill.

[Robert Taylor]

the first thing me and glen changed on the yss Suspension made 1.5 sec diffient in lap times so we new we were on a winner with yss. and it seem to have a lot finer setting than most Suspensions units.

Not splitting hairs ( at all ) but in all sincerity 1.5 seconds is easy to find in the roughing out stages when you are getting the fundamentals of chassis geometry, oil level and springing right with a new project ( with any suspension ) But the increments you find further to that get progressively smaller and more difficult. Glen will certainly concur with that!

At that same meeting we were playing with Choppas BMW and I guess we found some big increments too with geometry, spring changes and an incremental front fork valving change, more to test at the next meeting. As much of the improvement would have been Sloan getting used to the bike and more and more comfortable with the feel of it. In the rear we did one spring change only and didnt go inside that shock all weekend, so the setting was pretty good out of the box, at least with that model. But with the arrival of more torque and horsepower I expect we are going to be into that shock pretty quickly and more than once.

And just for interest......

A big misconception ( and I am talking about almost all coventional spring damper units of all brands ) is that the external clickers somehow have a magically wide adjustment range. That is actually not so, especially on the compression clickers. The compression clickers if they are arranged on the reservoir can ( most usually ) actually help to meter only the flow of oil into that reservoir, pushed only by the displacement of the shaft. That is typically only 12 to 13% of total mass flow. If the clickers are not in the sweet spot of responsive adjustment range then its because the internal valving stack is not in the right range for the application and therefore needs changing. That is where a solid database of alternative settings and knowledge from an experienced manufacturer can really pay dividends. Also most rebound adjusters on conventional shocks are a bypass bleed arranged through the centre of the shaft. Unless there is a flow seperating poppet valve that bleed circuit cross talks ie it flows not only on rebound stroke but also compression stroke. Adjustment of rebound can therefore also have a significant effect on compression ''feeling'' so its always good practice to get your rebound adjusted first and then fine tune your compression adjusters thereafter. High end racing shocks eg Ohlins TTX36, TTX40, new prototypes currently under test, some WP and some Penske models totally seperate compression and rebound functions, that makes life a whole load easier for everybody.

Manufacturers always wrestle with establishing ''how much should one click change the damping'' I believe most would agree that one click should be noticable to most riders of varying skill levels but then should not be such a big change that leads them to think it really only needed half of that. If on the other hand the click increments are too fine to be noticed thats not so good.

Heres an interesting one that makes sense when you sit down and analyse it. We do the lions share of work in the Superbike class and for whatever reasons the Ohlins TTX36 is the shock of choice with Ray intermittently competing with his WP shocks ( and excellent they are too ) With Superbikes the element of acceleration squat control becomes way way more important than in the other classes as the damn things have so much horsepower trying to tie them in knots. The internal valving spec becomes all important. If we have a compression valving spec that is slightly too firm spec the temptation is to take the compression clicker out a few clicks further. But we know from experience that there is a point you cannot go beyond as the bike just turns into a wobbly jelly as there is too much bypass bleed making the chassis too reactive to engine torque inputs. That also further delays the opening point of the shim stack so it makes things worse, if anything. The click setting we can go to is not that far removed from the ideal bleed setting. The answer is to revalve. Theres a cynical argument to suggest that racing shocks should perhaps only have about a 5 click adjustment range as the correct bypass bleed range and shim stack setting becomes so critical to balance out often competing requirements of maximising grip, having just enough acceleration squat for weight transference ( and not too much ) and getting the suspension to put just the right amount of heat and ''stress'' into the tyres. ( I am talking high horsepower brutal Superbikes with semi nervous geometry )

Superbikes are of course the most extreme example and the trickiest to setup. Lower horsepower bikes will be much more ''resilient'' to a wider clicker change setting, although dividends can also be found with revalving. Unfortunately not all shocks are designed to have internal setting changes performed quickly and with little fuss. OEM shocks being the hardest to work with as you cannot perform internal setting changes or even fundamental tracside spring preload changes anywhere near as quickly as a thoroughbred race shock. Factors like that are really important when their arent enough suspension engineers around.

[Robert Taylor]

It's all relative Robert. I'm used to $hite old bad handling bikes. Hey, when I got that bike I rode it for 4 rounds before realising the rear shock wasn't leaking simply because there was no oil left to leak out. A year later I realised the forks were bent as we couldn't get the damn things back on LOL. So bent the springs weren't doing their job. The bike handled 10x better after Paul got his hands on it so if it's good as you say it'll now handle 100x better.

As for safety, again, motorcyclists know the risks and if they get spat off due to over-pushing a poorly set-up bike, then as you often say, caveat emptor. Semper paratus and all that. A word or two directly to them about how something isn't set-up correctly will see you a lot better off in the long-term than publicly slating the installer. They're less likely to get defensive. You won't look like you're bitching. They may go back to the original installer to get it rectified (how the original installer handles this is up to them). They may get a third opinion. They're more likely to use you the next time.

Put simply, IMHO you'd be much better trying to tempt that fast old ginger fellah back to your fold with takes of how much faster he could be with your set-up than bad mouthing his current set-up.

ps. I hope my comments haven't increased my bill.

Ive only actually expressed the limitations and already told him in good humour that hed be faster with the good Swedish stuff! I have no doubt that in spite of other reservations his suspension guy will be getting decent results out of it.

Our bills are always fair and the added value will be setup help trackside!

[Robert Taylor]

I never had an issue riding it Robert , mind you , im old and thats what i am used to (bent , musshy , inconsistant , underdamped etc) .

I straightened them after his monumental get off at Taupo and got them to within 4thou but Steve being Steve , he crashes a wee bit so they will bend again lol.
Hes made me a promise to keep it wheels down so heres to progress.

Paul.

Believe me it was so far off ( with what we are used to, no criticism as such ) he is going to fizz at the difference. The flipside being that if he does fall off ( and touch wood I hope it doesnt happen ) he will be able to do so at a higher corner speed!

[roadracingoldfart]

Believe me it was so far off ( with what we are used to, no criticism as such ) he is going to fizz at the difference. The flipside being that if he does fall off ( and touch wood I hope it doesnt happen ) he will be able to do so at a higher corner speed!

HIGHER CORNER SPEED ....... hes fucked.

[scracha]

HIGHER CORNER SPEED ....... hes fucked.

Taupo A1 corner flat out here I come!!!!!!!


Hopefully Glen and the other senior bikes won't be lapping me so quickly now.

[slowpoke]

Despite some of the invective from folks who don't understand RT's passion for what he does and how he does it, there's still some interesting info in what must be the most discussed ride report in KB history. Thanks to those who have provided informative/constructive input.

I only came back to NZ about 4 years ago after nearly 20 years in Oz, and coincidentally took the first steps down the road to bankruptcy by starting racing about the same time. The very first test day I went to at Manfeild I met a bloke on a virtually stock SV650. I was a noob on a well worn R1 but I can still remember thinking "Who the FUCK is that bloke?!" as he motored past again and again. Even then you could see the gears turning in this blokes head as he plotted and schemed the path to improvement for that plain jane lil' SV.

Then I saw some footage of him on a Superbike at Wanga's, and I didn't feel quite so bad. Of course it wasn't the common or garden variety GSXR, he had chosen that most challenging/frustrating of superbike tools, a Kawa-bloody-saki ZX10R.

And of course he doesn't take the easy way out by working 9-5 in someone elses business either, he backed himself from an early age and runs his own.

So apart from learning he's an approachable, hell of a nice bloke, it's also obvious Glen likes to take the path less travelled.

So it is with the YSS stuff I reckon. After seeing that "beige" SV morph into something Harris or Spondon would be proud of I've no doubt he will be relishing the challenge of doing something a lil' different. It will just be the salt on his chips I reckon.

Robert on the other hand is a pure and (not so) simple perfectionist. There is only one way to do something and that's the best way you know how. Take a look at his workshop sometime, no dusty shelves or bins full of useless, broke crap lying about, it's exactly how you'd imagine a minimalist OCD clean Swedish workshop to be: who knew Ikea had an industrial catalog?

Far from being afraid of change he can't seem to wait for the next revelation that allows him to pass on improvements and looks for ways to improve things to suit NZ conditions. Check out the race tracks and roads in Europe or the US, they are a far cry from what we see in NZ. That's not to say he will force the most expensive solution on everyone, I've personally experienced a tailored (Taylor-ed?) package for that tired R1 that suited my L-plate racer status (how little has changed....). It wasn't "Warehouse" cheap but it suited my limited ridng and financial needs perfectly. So I can see Robert finding it perversely frustrating that someone of Glens calibre would deliberately choose a worse starting point than he has to.

Different goals ya see: Robert would just like to see Glen go as fast as humanly possible on the "jello-express", whereas I get the feeling Glen doesn't just want to go fast, he thrives on the development experience as well. The challenge and therefore personal satisfaction would be considerably reduced if he just took the path of least resistance. It's that old motorcycling/life mantra: the journey is just as important as the destination.

Kerry is probably somewhere between the two. He's got a hell of an imagination and dreams up lots of ways to skin the proverbial cat.......some of them may involve an anti-gravity chamber, but I digress. For all the stories you hear (both from him and about him) he's a pretty smart cat himself and isn't afraid to try something left field. Which I guess is where the YSS gear comes in. He knows it's not WP/Ohlins/Penske but he'll be thinking that a lot of folks, rightly/or wrongly can't/won't justify that expenditure so in true entrepeneurial spirit he's trying to satisfy what he sees as a demand in the market place. Time will tell whether they get more, less or exactly what they pay for.

So, 3 different people tackling the road racing conundrum from 3 very different angles, usually at the same time and place. Interesting times.....

For myself, I haven't got an ounce of Glen's talent/experience, but I'm determined to improve after a crap last season floundering on a new bike. Unfortunately time is my biggest enemy and I can't get to the track that often. So as part of my plan I'm happy to pay good money for the premium products/services/back-up provided by CKT and their lil smurf-wagon/tardis. I see it as not just the fast track to improvement but insurance against more of the expensive mistakes I've made in the past. Someone else with different circumstances will try something different but that's what makes it all so interesting eh? What else are we gonna talk about over a few beers once we've finished discussing the lingerie Craig is wearing under his leathers this weekend?

I'm not gonna 'pologise for the waffle, I've got a gutful of axle grease masquerading as coffee and on my 21st 12 hour nightshift with 7 more to go, be thankful I didn't write even more shite........yes, there's plenty more crap where this came from..........

[codgyoleracer]

Not splitting hairs ( at all ) but in all sincerity 1.5 seconds is easy to find in the roughing out stages when you are getting the fundamentals of chassis geometry, oil level and springing right with a new project ( with any suspension ) But the increments you find further to that get progressively smaller and more difficult. Glen will certainly concur with that!

At that same meeting we were playing with Choppas BMW and I guess we found some big increments too with geometry, spring changes and an incremental front fork valving change, more to test at the next meeting. As much of the improvement would have been Sloan getting used to the bike and more and more comfortable with the feel of it. In the rear we did one spring change only and didnt go inside that shock all weekend, so the setting was pretty good out of the box, at least with that model. But with the arrival of more torque and horsepower I expect we are going to be into that shock pretty quickly and more than once.

And just for interest......

A big misconception ( and I am talking about almost all coventional spring damper units of all brands ) is that the external clickers somehow have a magically wide adjustment range. That is actually not so, especially on the compression clickers. The compression clickers if they are arranged on the reservoir can ( most usually ) actually help to meter only the flow of oil into that reservoir, pushed only by the displacement of the shaft. That is typically only 12 to 13% of total mass flow. If the clickers are not in the sweet spot of responsive adjustment range then its because the internal valving stack is not in the right range for the application and therefore needs changing. That is where a solid database of alternative settings and knowledge from an experienced manufacturer can really pay dividends. Also most rebound adjusters on conventional shocks are a bypass bleed arranged through the centre of the shaft. Unless there is a flow seperating poppet valve that bleed circuit cross talks ie it flows not only on rebound stroke but also compression stroke. Adjustment of rebound can therefore also have a significant effect on compression ''feeling'' so its always good practice to get your rebound adjusted first and then fine tune your compression adjusters thereafter. High end racing shocks eg Ohlins TTX36, TTX40, new prototypes currently under test, some WP and some Penske models totally seperate compression and rebound functions, that makes life a whole load easier for everybody.

Manufacturers always wrestle with establishing ''how much should one click change the damping'' I believe most would agree that one click should be noticable to most riders of varying skill levels but then should not be such a big change that leads them to think it really only needed half of that. If on the other hand the click increments are too fine to be noticed thats not so good.

Heres an interesting one that makes sense when you sit down and analyse it. We do the lions share of work in the Superbike class and for whatever reasons the Ohlins TTX36 is the shock of choice with Ray intermittently competing with his WP shocks ( and excellent they are too ) With Superbikes the element of acceleration squat control becomes way way more important than in the other classes as the damn things have so much horsepower trying to tie them in knots. The internal valving spec becomes all important. If we have a compression valving spec that is slightly too firm spec the temptation is to take the compression clicker out a few clicks further. But we know from experience that there is a point you cannot go beyond as the bike just turns into a wobbly jelly as there is too much bypass bleed making the chassis too reactive to engine torque inputs. That also further delays the opening point of the shim stack so it makes things worse, if anything. The click setting we can go to is not that far removed from the ideal bleed setting. The answer is to revalve. Theres a cynical argument to suggest that racing shocks should perhaps only have about a 5 click adjustment range as the correct bypass bleed range and shim stack setting becomes so critical to balance out often competing requirements of maximising grip, having just enough acceleration squat for weight transference ( and not too much ) and getting the suspension to put just the right amount of heat and ''stress'' into the tyres. ( I am talking high horsepower brutal Superbikes with semi nervous geometry )

Superbikes are of course the most extreme example and the trickiest to setup. Lower horsepower bikes will be much more ''resilient'' to a wider clicker change setting, although dividends can also be found with revalving. Unfortunately not all shocks are designed to have internal setting changes performed quickly and with little fuss. OEM shocks being the hardest to work with as you cannot perform internal setting changes or even fundamental tracside spring preload changes anywhere near as quickly as a thoroughbred race shock. Factors like that are really important when their arent enough suspension engineers around.

Great post Rob, very informative

[codgyoleracer]

Despite some of the invective from folks who don't understand RT's passion for what he does and how he does it, there's still some interesting info in what must be the most discussed ride report in KB history. Thanks to those who have provided informative/constructive input.

I only came back to NZ about 4 years ago after nearly 20 years in Oz, and coincidentally took the first steps down the road to bankruptcy by starting racing about the same time. The very first test day I went to at Manfeild I met a bloke on a virtually stock SV650. I was a noob on a well worn R1 but I can still remember thinking "Who the FUCK is that bloke?!" as he motored past again and again. Even then you could see the gears turning in this blokes head as he plotted and schemed the path to improvement for that plain jane lil' SV.

Then I saw some footage of him on a Superbike at Wanga's, and I didn't feel quite so bad. Of course it wasn't the common or garden variety GSXR, he had chosen that most challenging/frustrating of superbike tools, a Kawa-bloody-saki ZX10R.

And of course he doesn't take the easy way out by working 9-5 in someone elses business either, he backed himself from an early age and runs his own.

So apart from learning he's an approachable, hell of a nice bloke, it's also obvious Glen likes to take the path less travelled.

So it is with the YSS stuff I reckon. After seeing that "beige" SV morph into something Harris or Spondon would be proud of I've no doubt he will be relishing the challenge of doing something a lil' different. It will just be the salt on his chips I reckon.

Robert on the other hand is a pure and (not so) simple perfectionist. There is only one way to do something and that's the best way you know how. Take a look at his workshop sometime, no dusty shelves or bins full of useless, broke crap lying about, it's exactly how you'd imagine a minimalist OCD clean Swedish workshop to be: who knew Ikea had an industrial catalog?

Far from being afraid of change he can't seem to wait for the next revelation that allows him to pass on improvements and looks for ways to improve things to suit NZ conditions. Check out the race tracks and roads in Europe or the US, they are a far cry from what we see in NZ. That's not to say he will force the most expensive solution on everyone, I've personally experienced a tailored (Taylor-ed?) package for that tired R1 that suited my L-plate racer status (how little has changed....). It wasn't "Warehouse" cheap but it suited my limited ridng and financial needs perfectly. So I can see Robert finding it perversely frustrating that someone of Glens calibre would deliberately choose a worse starting point than he has to.

Different goals ya see: Robert would just like to see Glen go as fast as humanly possible on the "jello-express", whereas I get the feeling Glen doesn't just want to go fast, he thrives on the development experience as well. The challenge and therefore personal satisfaction would be considerably reduced if he just took the path of least resistance. It's that old motorcycling/life mantra: the journey is just as important as the destination.

Kerry is probably somewhere between the two. He's got a hell of an imagination and dreams up lots of ways to skin the proverbial cat.......some of them may involve an anti-gravity chamber, but I digress. For all the stories you hear (both from him and about him) he's a pretty smart cat himself and isn't afraid to try something left field. Which I guess is where the YSS gear comes in. He knows it's not WP/Ohlins/Penske but he'll be thinking that a lot of folks, rightly/or wrongly can't/won't justify that expenditure so in true entrepeneurial spirit he's trying to satisfy what he sees as a demand in the market place. Time will tell whether they get more, less or exactly what they pay for.

So, 3 different people tackling the road racing conundrum from 3 very different angles, usually at the same time and place. Interesting times.....

For myself, I haven't got an ounce of Glen's talent/experience, but I'm determined to improve after a crap last season floundering on a new bike. Unfortunately time is my biggest enemy and I can't get to the track that often. So as part of my plan I'm happy to pay good money for the premium products/services/back-up provided by CKT and their lil smurf-wagon/tardis. I see it as not just the fast track to improvement but insurance against more of the expensive mistakes I've made in the past. Someone else with different circumstances will try something different but that's what makes it all so interesting eh? What else are we gonna talk about over a few beers once we've finished discussing the lingerie Craig is wearing under his leathers this weekend?

I'm not gonna 'pologise for the waffle, I've got a gutful of axle grease masquerading as coffee and on my 21st 12 hour nightshift with 7 more to go, be thankful I didn't write even more shite........yes, there's plenty more crap where this came from..........

Bugger me if you havent hit a number of rusty nails on the head Spuddly