It's official - there are some heinous drivers out there

**shrub** · 2nd June 2010, 08:39

From today's Herald: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10649114

They could have asked any of us.

**Katman** · 2nd June 2010, 08:44

Originally Posted by shrub

They could have asked any of us.

Yeah, cos we're all angels.

**shrub** · 2nd June 2010, 08:50

Originally Posted by Katman

Yeah, cos we're all angels.

Hello Katman, I wondered how long you'd take. I agree, a lot of motorcyclists are pretty stupid and should get trainer wheels and speed limters fitted just like a lot of car drivers are bloody good at what they do, but I think if you took the average biker and the average citizen cage driver, and compared their skill level and degree of defensive driving engaged in, we'd come out way ahead. Also if I hit a car while riding my T Bird I'm unlikely to kill anyone other than myself, whereas if I hit a car driving my mighty Bluebird I'll cause one hell of a lot of damage.

**SMOKEU** · 2nd June 2010, 08:57

I don't really think that much will happen to these dangerous drivers, because we all know that burnouts and noisy exhausts are far more dangerous than driving on the wrong side of the road around blind corners. The government told me so.

**Katman** · 2nd June 2010, 09:04

Originally Posted by shrub

I agree, a lot of motorcyclists are pretty stupid and should get trainer wheels and speed limters fitted just like a lot of car drivers are bloody good at what they do, but I think if you took the average biker and the average citizen cage driver, and compared their skill level and degree of defensive driving engaged in, we'd come out way ahead.

Really?

We make up 2% of the road going fleet but are involved in 10% of all road accidents.

Doesn't sound like an overwhelming display of great skills or defensive riding to me.

**shrub** · 2nd June 2010, 09:14

Originally Posted by Katman

Really?

We make up 2% of the road going fleet but are involved in 10% of all road accidents.

Doesn't sound like great skills or defensive riding to me.

Sadly motorcycles are inherently dangerous for a number of reasons, and in some cases no matter how good the rider they are going to have an off (pea gravel in the middle of a corner is a common one this time of year) so maybe we shouldn't ride the things.

Or maybe we should recognise that most long term riders are careful and skilled and haven't had an off for a long time, and that there are a small percentage of riders who are bloody awful. Or beginners - in my first year I came off regularly, although a lot of that was caused by a pretty awful bike with apalling brakes that were either on or off and a frame with hinges everywhere combined with square Chinese tyres (I couldn't understand why other bikers spent so much money on tyres).

**SMOKEU** · 2nd June 2010, 09:15

Originally Posted by Katman

We make up 2% of the road going fleet but are involved in 10% of all road accidents.

Is that so? I've driven about 20,000km in total in cages and I've caused 3 crashes, and I've done about 15,000km in total on bikes without incident. Therefore, bikes are safer than cages as a bike has less surface area than a cage in which it can hit an object.

**Katman** · 2nd June 2010, 09:19

Originally Posted by shrub

Sadly motorcycles are inherently dangerous for a number of reasons, and in some cases no matter how good the rider they are going to have an off (pea gravel in the middle of a corner is a common one this time of year) so maybe we shouldn't ride the things.

Defensive riding as about learning to avoid accidents - even the ones that we feel we had no blame in.

**shrub** · 2nd June 2010, 09:27

Originally Posted by SMOKEU

Is that so? I've driven about 20,000km in total in cages and I've caused 3 crashes, and I've done about 15,000km in total on bikes without incident. Therefore, bikes are safer than cages as a bike has less surface area than a cage in which it can hit an object.

Personally driving my cage scares me. Horrible, dangerous things and I am scared shitless of taking someone out. They're huge great things, have no visibility, are as slow as a wet week and you can't find an escape route.

**MSTRS:Me** · 2nd June 2010, 09:29

Originally Posted by Katman

Really?

We make up 2% of the road going fleet but are involved in 10% of all road accidents.

Doesn't sound like an overwhelming display of great skills or defensive riding to me.

Without seeming to be an apologist for motorcyclists, that is too simplistic.
We all know that there are 'millions' of things that can go wrong for a rider, that would hardly even register on the whoops meter for someone in a car.

**shrub** · 2nd June 2010, 09:29

Originally Posted by Katman

Defensive riding as about learning to avoid accidents - even the ones that we feel we had no blame in.

Precisely, and my argument is that most experienced motorcyclists ride defensively. You don't get to be an experienced biker without defensive riding skills, whereas a huge number of citizens have been driving 20 and 30 years but still have no idea about defensive driving.

**bogan** · 2nd June 2010, 09:38

no need to argue guys, we were mentioned in that article too

On one occasion the truckie snapped a woman pushing a pram in front of an oncoming truck; on another, a motorcyclist texting while riding.

I tried that once, my impression was it was no more dangerous than texting while driving, though I was ready to chuck my phone if needed.

And mixed feelings on the gorge thing, there are places where its safe to pass (100m vis after), but only if you are following a slow vehicle and are on a decent bike or sports car. So In saying that though, of th 54 they snapped I'd be willing to be very few, if any actually passed someone, and even less would indicate when they do!

**schrodingers cat** · 2nd June 2010, 09:40

Originally Posted by shrub

Precisely, and my argument is that most experienced motorcyclists ride defensively.

Gee I've seen some pretty offensive riding

Its not just bikes that need to watch out. Driving sedatly yesterday towing a trailer on a long straight peice of road (that we specialise in down this way) in broad daylight, excellent visability, very low traffic volume when a Hilux Surf that had been stationary on the side of the road pulled out directly into my path. I had to brake hard enough to make the dogs complain. It wasn't a cockie. It was a moron. Mirrors are for pussies obviously. Another case of SIDSY.

It was outside the prison so perhaps they were celebrating another sucessful drugs drop.

**Katman** · 2nd June 2010, 09:56

Originally Posted by shrub

Precisely, and my argument is that most experienced motorcyclists ride defensively.

If that were truly the case our accident stats would read completely differently.

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Without seeming to be an apologist for motorcyclists, that is too simplistic.
We all know that there are 'millions' of things that can go wrong for a rider, that would hardly even register on the whoops meter for someone in a car.

Go re-read post #8 John.