Where is biking going, is the direction what we are prepared to live with?

[Cayman911]

its not just the bikers, and its not which way we are heading, its which way we are being dragged by the hippies

[Katman]

The internal combustion engine has been living on borrowed time for a while now. If electric motors are the way of the future we can only hope that there are still two wheeled vehicles around to be powered by them.

The survival of Motorcycling will be determined by far greater issues than whether you get to continue enjoying your motorcycle's exhaust note.

[Paul in NZ]

Of course its changing - change is natures usual state of being. I'd be more worried if it was not changing.

The problem is - very often, once you take something up you flounder about until you reach your ideal comfort zone and then you get a bit miffed to find the thing keeps changing and you get left behind in your time warp... alone.... gulp! Pretty soon you become irrelevant to the topic and you start asking daft questions regarding the course the thing is taking yet knowing full well you no longer capable of influencing it.. In short, you are irrelevant.

On the up side - once you achieve this state of non relevance the world is your oyster and you can pick and choose at will... its wonderful ;-)

[McWild]

Or perhaps today's young, sportsbike generation doesn't really give a shit about being considered badass and manly, and ride "in dayglow group rides below the speed limit" because they are riding for THEMSELVES and not to the old stereotype that some members of the older generation can't seem to remove from their heads.

Basically the only purpose this thread serves is to come out and say "Yadda yadda all you young'uns are pussies who don't care about biking the way I do, they aren't INDIVIDUAL like I am". And what a load of bollocks. If you need to buy bikes and dress a certain way in order to feel like an individual, I feel sorry for you.

But because we do not fit in anymore.

Being an individual is so old fashion. Like me I suppose.

What.

[Katman]

Wherever its going I'm going the other way. I've always travelled a different road.

Hence my concern of you being at the forefront of an organisation entrusted with the future development and very survival of motorcycling.

[Conquiztador]

Or perhaps today's young, sportsbike generation doesn't really give a shit about being considered badass and manly, and ride "in dayglow group rides below the speed limit" because they are riding for THEMSELVES and not to the old stereotype that some members of the older generation can't seem to remove from their heads.

Basically the only purpose this thread serves is to come out and say "Yadda yadda all you young'uns are pussies who don't care about biking the way I do, they aren't INDIVIDUAL like I am". And what a load of bollocks. If you need to buy bikes and dress a certain way in order to feel like an individual, I feel sorry for you.




What.

Not my point at all. I try to clarify: Laws and rules are put in place all around us. Our individuality is being squashed, the area we can move in is getting smaller by the day. Soon there is no option but to either follow all the rules or opt out. Or the third option: rebel and do what you want to and then suffer the concequences.

When did we become a mass that were not able to make right decisions anymore without it all being in print and policed? Here I was in the belief that the human race was becoming more intelligent and educated. But somehow it does not match with what is happening. New rules and regulations are passed on regular basis. And for what reason? To save us from our selves? I dont need someone else to save me. I have done that by my self all my life successfully.

Cities in Europe are now removing roadsigns, crossings, sidewalks and the accident rates are dropping at an amazing rate. Why? Because suddenly people have to once again take responsibility of their decisions, be more alert and considerate to each others.

[Katman]

It has been the lack of regard for anything that resembles a law shown by a small number that has resulted in more laws being imposed upon the many.

[Conquiztador]

It has been the lack of regard for anything that resembles a law shown by a small number that has resulted in more laws being imposed upon the many.

No disrespect at all Katman. I know this is your view and you will keep on pushing this message until the end. But I tend to disagree. The ones you are referring to could not give a shit re any new rules. They did not care re the old ones so why would they give a shit re the new ones? Nothing else is achieved than making more of us lawbreakers as new laws are passed. It will all become like Rugby Union. So many rules that nobody can keep up.

[Katman]

No disrespect at all Katman. I know this is your view and you will keep on pushing this message until the end. But I tend to disagree. The ones you are referring to could not give a shit re any new rules. They did not care re the old ones so why would they give a shit re the new ones? Nothing else is achieved than making more of us lawbreakers as new laws are passed. It will all become like Rugby Union. So many rules that nobody can keep up.

I never said that the people who disregarded the old rules would suddenly obey the new ones. I'm merely pointing out who we have to thank for the current crop of rules.

[McWild]

When did we become a mass that were not able to make right decisions anymore without it all being in print and policed? Here I was in the belief that the human race was becoming more intelligent and educated. But somehow it does not match with what is happening. New rules and regulations are passed on regular basis. And for what reason? To save us from our selves? I dont need someone else to save me. I have done that by my self all my life successfully.

Because there are stupid people out there. A lot of them. And living in a functional society requires catering for all comers. A beaucracy is the most simple and effective way to maintain such a society, and again I feel that it's immature to judge one's individuality on materialistic ideals.
It's very easy to say let natural selection sort them out, or that you can fend for yourself and have always done so but the reality is that if you could truly and completely fend for yourself and were a fan of Darwinism then you'd move to somewhere like Somalia. If you want to enjoy the luxuries of money and social security then you have to pay the price of having certain restricitions imposed on your freedom. I think people have too much of a sense of entitlement at the moment, but you can't have everything.

Total and complete freedom can never work. There is a reason why social hierarchy keeps returning to human society, it's because it works.

And it woud be interesting if you could provide a link to your comment on "cities in Europe".

[Blinkwing]

well... are harleys forbidden in nz?
no seriously... about the less pollution, it's still debated. a french study seems to demonstrate that on the average a bike pollute MORE than a car, considering the exhaust emissions. but on a city trip, because of various reasons (time of trip, less time to search for a park, less time at lights...) they finally pollute less than a car. on country trips the emissions are similar.

I wonder if that study took into account the fact that emissions technology in motorbikes is still catching up to the tech in cars.

[McWild]

Although I would like to agree that the latest bikes have absolutely nothing on the bikes of old. Harleys should have kick starts. In fact so should sportsbikes.

[Conquiztador]

And it woud be interesting if you could provide a link to your comment on "cities in Europe".

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,2143663,00.html

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...448747,00.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Globa...town-finds-out

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-2068722.html

[Gibbo89]

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,2143663,00.html

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...448747,00.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Globa...town-finds-out

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-2068722.html

the idea is good, but you can't assume it will work in every place where there are traffic lights? i.e rush hour in the main centres in NZ. though i'm not doubting it wouldn't work in certain areas.

although the europeans are always trying new ideas, they seem pretty flexible. i could see a lot of kiwis hating on the idea of no more traffic lights.

[McWild]

That's really cool, although for some reason I have trouble imagining it working in New Zealand - not that it couldn't at all, but I don't think a lot of New Zealand drivers, particularly young drivers, have the experience, education, or maturity to safely handle themselves. Although on the flipside it could thus enforce a stricter licence acquiring process. Which would be good in the current road system anyway.

Although I don't see any connection between road signs and individuality. Yes it encourages thinking before doing, but hopefully most of us are doing that anyway. Removal of road signs also doesn't imply removal of law. All it would do is make the law's presence less noticeable. France, for example has some of the strictest highway patrol and ticketing procedures in the world. You speed there, you are f'd. I will look for a link if you want me too.

Your main point was the direction that biking is heading in, and I think that just because the concept of individuality has changed, doesn't mean that it has disappeared altogether. If anything, more laws and restrictions on motorcycling and motorcycles would surely mean that only the truly dedicated would remain passionate about them? I think perhaps that biking is more special now than ever for the young generation.
From the sound of it (I wasn't alive so I can't comment), riding back in its heyday in New Zealand, as in 70s 80s, was so popular because bikes were what young people could afford, it was the easiest most acquirable and socially popular mode of transport. Now I estimate the amount of bikes that turn up to uni, at Canterbury, in all weathers day in day out to be less than 30 across campus. Maybe even less than 20.
So for the ones who are riding it's more individual than ever.

I don't think it's so much the regulations and restrictions preventing young people from getting into bikes, I think it's more the fact that cheap, often fast cars are just more popular.