Rode an electric bike today

[MarkH]

Seems a far better idea to take the generator bits off the vehicle, leave the battery and electric motor and charge from mains then use universal batterys that can be swapped for full ones at fuel stations.

I completely agree about removing the generator, look at the Toyota Prius and every other hybrid ever made - talk about a steaming pile of shit! Take a hybrid, remove the petrol tank & petrol engine & generator, replace them with an equal weight of batteries and you have a zero emission vehicle with a respectable range. Greater range can be achieved by designing more efficient batteries that store more watts hours of power per kg of mass. If the superconductors ever get usable for commercial applications then we could one day have 5 minute charging at service stations - a couple hours of driving followed by a 5 minute coffee break then another 2 hours of driving, sounds pretty good.

Swapping batteries at a service station is an interesting idea. But pretty much every chemistry of batteries suffer from declining performance over time, so swapping your 3 year old battery for a new one would be a bit too good to be true and no way would you want to swap your new battery for a 3 year old one. Maybe a primary battery fitted to the car could be charged from a secondary battery that you could swap at service stations - but there would need to be some working out of cost/weight/performance of such an idea.

Another option would be to have enough range for a good half day of travelling and fast enough charging at specialized stations to get a full charge within a one hour lunch/dinner break. Home charging equipment could charge from empty to full in 8 hours (or even 12) and that would be fine, obviously the charging stations would have high performance charging equipment that could deliver more amps/watt than you will be able to at home. Day to day commuting could be handled just fine with only home charging. Running on batteries provides energy efficiency much better than any diesel car can provide.

Yet another option for families with multiple vehicles - electric commuter vehicle & petrol powered weekend/holiday vehicle. Normal daily driving for most people is easy to achieve on batteries. Maybe removable battery packs should be used to give lighter vehicles with more luggage space for short trips and add weight (losing luggage space) for when longer range is required. Even the motorcycle in the OP has room for more batteries to increase range (as mentioned in the video).

As much as many enjoy the exhaust sound of many bikes, the future will eventually be battery powered, though it may take another decade or 2 for the improvements required for some to change over.

[bogan]

I completely agree about removing the generator, look at the Toyota Prius and every other hybrid ever made - talk about a steaming pile of shit! Take a hybrid, remove the petrol tank & petrol engine & generator, replace them with an equal weight of batteries and you have a zero emission vehicle with a respectable range. Greater range can be achieved by designing more efficient batteries that store more watts hours of power per kg of mass. If the superconductors ever get usable for commercial applications then we could one day have 5 minute charging at service stations - a couple hours of driving followed by a 5 minute coffee break then another 2 hours of driving, sounds pretty good.

agreed

Swapping batteries at a service station is an interesting idea. But pretty much every chemistry of batteries suffer from declining performance over time, so swapping your 3 year old battery for a new one would be a bit too good to be true and no way would you want to swap your new battery for a 3 year old one. Maybe a primary battery fitted to the car could be charged from a secondary battery that you could swap at service stations - but there would need to be some working out of cost/weight/performance of such an idea.

but you don't own the batteries in the first place, a yearly lease cost of say $500 + $10 each time you fill up would be the go I reckon.

Another option would be to have enough range for a good half day of travelling and fast enough charging at specialized stations to get a full charge within a one hour lunch/dinner break. Home charging equipment could charge from empty to full in 8 hours (or even 12) and that would be fine, obviously the charging stations would have high performance charging equipment that could deliver more amps/watt than you will be able to at home. Day to day commuting could be handled just fine with only home charging. Running on batteries provides energy efficiency much better than any diesel car can provide.

Yet another option for families with multiple vehicles - electric commuter vehicle & petrol powered weekend/holiday vehicle. Normal daily driving for most people is easy to achieve on batteries. Maybe removable battery packs should be used to give lighter vehicles with more luggage space for short trips and add weight (losing luggage space) for when longer range is required. Even the motorcycle in the OP has room for more batteries to increase range (as mentioned in the video).

As much as many enjoy the exhaust sound of many bikes, the future will eventually be battery powered, though it may take another decade or 2 for the improvements required for some to change over.

yeh, though for any manufacturer to commit to any of the ideas we listed, the development of batteries would need to slow down a bit, no point commiting to something only to have the batteries superseded in a year or two.

[MarkH]

yeh, though for any manufacturer to commit to any of the ideas we listed, the development of batteries would need to slow down a bit, no point commiting to something only to have the batteries superseded in a year or two.

Yeah, but naah - that ain't gonna happen! Anything they can do to bring better batteries into the market they will. Every improvement in battery technology increases the benefits of switching to electric powered vehicles - even hybrids can be improved by using better batteries.

[bogan]

Yeah, but naah - that ain't gonna happen! Anything they can do to bring better batteries into the market they will. Every improvement in battery technology increases the benefits of switching to electric powered vehicles - even hybrids can be improved by using better batteries.

seems like we are on the steep bit of the developement slope atm, but it'll flatten out eventualy, hopefully at that point the batteries will be so awesome there'll be no need for swappas etc but if not, that'd be the way to go I reckon.

[Milts]

Found this link today, would certainly make for one hell of a sexy commuter:

http://www.gizmag.com/brammo-empulse...orcycle/15717/

I can actually imagine someone (admittedly someone with money to burn) buying and using this bike regularly, especially if it were possible to charge while you are at work. Just one step closer to a fully functional and practical electric bike....

And imagine, in a year or two, that bike with a power unit from these guys: http://www.horizonfuelcell.com/

I can imagine this becoming a reality within five or ten years (in the USA, Europe and Japan, anyway; probably a good 20 years till it hits the NZ market )

[javawocky]

Found this link today, would certainly make for one hell of a sexy commuter:

http://www.gizmag.com/brammo-empulse...orcycle/15717/

I can actually imagine someone (admittedly someone with money to burn) buying and using this bike regularly, especially if it were possible to charge while you are at work. Just one step closer to a fully functional and practical electric bike....

And imagine, in a year or two, that bike with a power unit from these guys: http://www.horizonfuelcell.com/

I can imagine this becoming a reality within five or ten years (in the USA, Europe and Japan, anyway; probably a good 20 years till it hits the NZ market

slap a fairing to cover those ugly batteries and I'll take it to work and back. Price would have to drop quite a bit more though.

[avgas]

Found this link today, would certainly make for one hell of a sexy commuter:

http://www.gizmag.com/brammo-empulse...orcycle/15717/

I can actually imagine someone (admittedly someone with money to burn) buying and using this bike regularly, especially if it were possible to charge while you are at work. Just one step closer to a fully functional and practical electric bike....

Some hi-res images of the Brammo Empulse here:

http://farrst.blogspot.com/2010/08/brammo-empulse.html

with more to come when I get time

[DarkLord]

Very, very cool.

What if you come to a red light... does it have any sort of neutral or does the motor just sit at idle if you don't rev it?

Edit: I am assuming it can be ridden in the rain?

[bogan]

Very, very cool.

What if you come to a red light... does it have any sort of neutral or does the motor just sit at idle if you don't rev it?

most of the electrics are direct drive, so no neutral, the motor just stops spinning so you use no power at lights. No start up lag to worry about like normal engines. However that also means if you turn the throttle at the wrong moment it wont just rev like a car, it'll fuck off into whatever its aimed at

[cave weta]

However that also means if you turn the throttle at the wrong moment it wont just rev like a car, it'll fuck off into whatever its aimed at

Ahhh- you mean like this! -3:20-

[Suntoucher]

I do like that Empulse, although the fuel tank is faux, so maybe they could have put the batteries vertical, and hid half of them under the fuel tank. If you're making an electric bike, why pretend it has a regular engine?

Wouldn't mind one if NZ did some sort of decent EV rebate. Although soon enough the 250cc limit rule will have to be rescinded. As you could invest in something like that 500kW one that crashed in the above and ride it on your learners.

And some nice fairing which streamlines the entire thing would be good.

[bogan]

Ahhh- you mean like this! -3:20-

sort of, but doing a skid like that even on a normal bike is asking for trouble. I was meaning the one where the reporter is just standing round in the garage and idly puts his hand on the throttle of an electric scoot, is pretty hilarious as it jams on and fucks off all round the workshop

[avgas]

I do like that Empulse, although the fuel tank is faux, so maybe they could have put the batteries vertical, and hid half of them under the fuel tank. If you're making an electric bike, why pretend it has a regular engine?

And some nice fairing which streamlines the entire thing would be good.

Even though the tank is fake - underneath it is all the control gear so its not wasted. As for making it looks like a normal bike - that is just down to ergonomics and aesthetics. No one would buy an electric motorbike if it did not look or feel like a motorbike. If you want a faired one they make and race this http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rammo+iom&aq=f