The AA are lying about us.

[shrub]

Regardless of why it was started, we already put our thinking caps on and so far it has come to nought. Seems to me we need some people to stand up and start doing shit (outside of whinging on kb), if you feel so strongly it needs to be done, and that bronz won't do it, put your hand up.

And there lies the problem - do we sit in our comfy chairs and wax eloquent or do we do something about it? BRONZ are flawed, but they are there and have a structure and with the right resources could well be the answer, so do we embrace BRONZ or start something new?

Or do we do nothing?

[Katman]

And there lies the problem - do we sit in our comfy chairs and wax eloquent or do we do something about it? BRONZ are flawed, but they are there and have a structure and with the right resources could well be the answer, so do we embrace BRONZ or start something new?

Or do we do nothing?

I believe that BRONZ has an infrastructure that is too valuable to throw away. It just needs far more support and someone to stear it in the right direction.

[shrub]

I believe that BRONZ has an infrastructure that is too valuable to throw away. It just needs far more support and someone to stear it in the right direction.

I think you're right and that they need support.

[Katman]

I also believe it's imperative that the national over-seeing body of BRONZ is reinstated asap.

It will be counter-productive starting up a whole lot of regional bodies if they all start pulling in different directions.

[GOONR]

I also believe it's imperative that the national over-seeing body of BRONZ is reinstated asap.

It will be no use starting up a whole lot of regional bodies if they all start pulling in different directions.

Something like the BMF in the Uk?

[Katman]

Something like the BMF in the Uk?

That looks like a great site.

Should be plenty of ideas for the picking.

[davereid]

It's called fighting back against the irresponsible motorcyclists (who have no moral authority) who are ruining motorcycling for us all. Get used to it.

I'm already used to it.

Blaming others then throwing them to the wolves to save yourself is an ancient art, you didn't invent it.

The first helpful bastards showed up in the late 60's so nothing new there. You guys are too young to remember, but we have seen it all before.

We got helmets due to a rash of bike crashes. The "experts" promised us that they would save lives. Maybe they did, but it was never obvious in the figures for bikers killed.

You can't pick the year helmets became compulsory by looking at motorcycle death rates. But it's easy to spot if you look at other data. We had two full time spinal units within the first decade, populated with alive but broken bikers.

Then in the late 70's early 80's the jap super-bike arrived.

The TV was full of documentaries on "MurderCycles". Politicians were rabid with schemes to restrict horsepower, wonderful new laws that would make us safe.

Now we had to do a test to get a licence, instead of paying a fiver. Nothing changed. Some riders valued life and limb. Some did not.

The Jap import car arrived, and motorcycling got forgotten, as tired old cunts like me, who had never listened to the politicians kept on riding just like we always had, and the new crop of bad drivers chose jap imports, and became the boyracer.

Attention was diverted from us, and bikers had a reprieve.

Then, bad car drivers who had had a bike in the 60's or 70's decided to buy a Harley as the boat didn't make 'em bad-ass enough.

Trouble was, they crashed just as much as they did in the 60's and 70's. But the ACC man was in tears, as they were now wealthy. The accident cost fuck all. It was the earnings related compensation that broke the bank.

So now, we have a new era.

The youngsters will push a new range of "safety initiatives" in the hope that throwing some new jews in the fire will mean the nazis will go home.

The old cunts don't care. they know the TPTB will only ever add $$$ to the equation, and they have plenty of those.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~

It remains my opinion that we have to dispute the right of ACC and government to attack individual road users on the basis of risk. That has been shouted down here, with calls for more laws. I can't support that.

But, I would add my assistance and support to voluntary programs. Like the wonderful mentor scheme. Like assisting others to up-skill.

So... I'll not comment again in this or any other thread on ACC or biker safety, except where I can offer something positive.

But please don't think for a moment that they will go away if you feed them.

[MSTRS:Me]

So... I'll not comment again in this or any other thread on ACC or biker safety, except where I can offer something positive.

Please don't stop contributing. Your contribution adds value, regardless.

[Katman]

The youngsters will push a new range of "safety initiatives" in the hope that throwing some new jews in the fire will mean the nazis will go home.

For a start, I'm flattered that you think I'm a youngster. Although I'm perhaps not the relic you see yourself as, I've certainly been around a while.

It remains my opinion that we have to dispute the right of ACC and government to attack individual road users on the basis of risk. That has been shouted down here, with calls for more laws. I can't support that.

The fact remains that all our disputes so far have fallen on deaf ears. That will not change until we come across as a sensible body whose opinion is worth listening to. It will also not change until we become a strong enough body that we can protect the future of motorcycling without instigating more laws.

At the moment the best we can hope for is that by initiating new ideas to improve the way that motorcycling is perceived we will gain the time needed to become that strong.

Motorcycling needs to entice more numbers to it's fold. We will not get that by perpetuating the idea that we see ourselves as existing outside of society.

[shrub]

So... I'll not comment again in this or any other thread on ACC or biker safety, except where I can offer something positive..

No, you say some good stuff.

[dipshit]

I would dearly love to have the opportunity for you and I to sit down with Berries and study each motorcycle fatality in order to work out who had the greater degree of responsibility in the accident.

You would be in for a rude shock.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...post1129822417

[Brian d marge]

For a start, I'm flattered that you think I'm a youngster. Although I'm perhaps not the relic you see yourself as, I've certainly been around a while.



The fact remains that all our disputes so far have fallen on deaf ears. That will not change until we come across as a sensible body whose opinion is worth listening to. It will also not change until we become a strong enough body that we can protect the future of motorcycling without instigating more laws.

At the moment the best we can hope for is that by initiating new ideas to improve the way that motorcycling is perceived we will gain the time needed to become that strong.

Motorcycling needs to entice more numbers to it's fold. We will not get that by perpetuating the idea that we see ourselves as existing outside of society.

I think the Brits , and kiwis , not sure about the rest are great committee formers , look at the state of Road Racing ,
So when it comes to road safety ,,,good luck
The Canadians always seem sensible

Stephen

[Katman]

Yet another statistic this weekend to support the AA's 'lie'.

[MSTRS:Me]

1 biker. 4 car-bound.
I long for those halcyon days when we had a 4kph tolerance and no deaths...

[dipshit]

I would be very, very surprised if 81% of motorcycle fatalities were the fault of the rider and that only 9% were caused by car drivers...

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...post1129827474

So in 49 fatalities 7 were caused by cars and 2 by trucks.

9 from 49 makes 81%, 9%. (oops... that should read 81%, 19%... forgot the ten)