Aftermarket wheels for new National SUPERBIKE rules

[Robert Taylor]

Is it possible that the distributor that most backs road racing is also the distributor most likley to sell new O.E.M wheels to racers?
Allowing an aftermarket rear shock but not aftermarket forks is a little like allowing a carbon rear rim, but not a front one isint it?

In theory yes but the e-bay option or other means will be most exercised. There is no conspiracy theory to suggest that the very distributor would reject aftermarket super lightweight wheels because it would hurt their sales of their own oem wheels. I personally know them better than that and they were in fact spinning out about the massive increase in budget to purchase several sets of wheels, that incidentally would have been a different brand to Biggles sponsor.
No disagree, aftermarket rear shock $2000, aftermarket race forks 5k to 20k. That is exactly why manufacturers such as Ohlins, WP and K-tech produce complete guts replacement aftermarket cartridges to bolt into the stock forks 2.5 k for NIX30 Ohlins fitted and optimised for our tracks. A substanial improvement for domestic racing at a much more affordable cost. A line in the sand that most accept.

[gixerracer]

Ya still off base man. Buy wheels or any product off ebay etc crash its fucked buy more. Buy Ohlins or WP or wot eva of ebay fit to your bike it is shit take to robert or ray or DICKIE suspension guy and it cost you many and then you try it again and it still not perfect another change more money its now mint go to another track O it shit again do you see where this is going

I don't really believe its a fair comparison you are making Robert...I remember not too long ago when purchasing an Ohlins TTX36 was much less expensive by buying off ebay. You have addressed this issue by negotiating better prices from your supplier and now it is a no brainier for those in the market for a Ohlins to get it from you (for service support etc). There will always be the argument that its cheaper to import yourself via ebay and the likes but you know more than anyone that domestic businesses cost to run. You have to pay duties / GST whereas someone can buy a 'gift' off ebay. You NEED to make a profit albeit a small one. Its not a crime to make a living out of selling products and in fact is what our country and indeed sport runs on.

so.... a FAIR comparison for the wheels needs to be made here in New Zealand. Where can people get their wheels from at present? Mainly the manufacturers / dealers. Like I have said many times so far, a set of CARROZZERIA wheels for racers are most often CHEAPER than buying OEM. If people wish to purchase wheels from ebay, so be it...its a global economy...but at least let a domestic company have a crack at this important performance enhancer.

On the other points you made re the forks having being banned....well maybe the conversation needed to be had about maybe only allowing aftermarket 'alloy' wheels to minimize the extra cost's associated with the likes of Carbon wheels (even though personally I would love to see these allowed too...even tho we don't deal with them). This would be a simple answer in the same vein as allowing internal cartridges for the forks but not the entire forks. We never had the opportunity to have this discussion on Friday afternoon and I can tell you it would have been nice to have possibly cleared up some inaccurate cost presumptions that appear to have been made.

[CHOPPA]

I've always thought it is not really rocket science to work out what top level NZ racing needs. More riders on the grid. Thats not going to happen in this country with check book racing. It's the same old 3 to 5 riders at the top then the also rans, and I predict the list of also rans will drop more and more as they lose interest in spending 40+k to have their arses kicked. Admittedly, the top guys are there because they actually are the best riders. So naturally the money which =- hot bits will follow them. How many superbikes on the grid last season? 10?

With equipment parity, There are riders capable of keeping the fast guys in sight, they will then start to even challenge the established order given an even playing field. Make the bikes affordable and you will get more good riders moving up from the other classes too. I reckon 10 bikes on the grid looks pathetic.

A simple recipe I would have thought would be....
Slip on muffler (stock mufflers to expensive to crunch)
Power commander (to allow for muffler)
Rear shock and fork internals (standard shocks just wear tyres much faster, so false economy)
Sprockets, Brake pads, Brake lines
Slicks (they last longer)
Go racing, enjoy.

Who knows, the larger grids, and closer racing might even encourage a spectator to turn up

Those rules look pretty much spot on, only thing I would debate is to go for a full exhaust as having a hory mid pipe welded on to a 40k race bike is a bit gay.

It really seems like this has been a general consensus on what would have been an ideal ruling, bikes that are 2007 bikes run 2007 spec rules 2008 run 2008 spec rules etc etc not sure where the rules came from??

[Robert Taylor]

I don't really believe its a fair comparison you are making Robert...I remember not too long ago when purchasing an Ohlins TTX36 was much less expensive by buying off ebay. You have addressed this issue by negotiating better prices from your supplier and now it is a no brainier for those in the market for a Ohlins to get it from you (for service support etc). There will always be the argument that its cheaper to import yourself via ebay and the likes but you know more than anyone that domestic businesses cost to run. You have to pay duties / GST whereas someone can buy a 'gift' off ebay. You NEED to make a profit albeit a small one. Its not a crime to make a living out of selling products and in fact is what our country and indeed sport runs on.

so.... a FAIR comparison for the wheels needs to be made here in New Zealand. Where can people get their wheels from at present? Mainly the manufacturers / dealers. Like I have said many times so far, a set of CARROZZERIA wheels for racers are most often CHEAPER than buying OEM. If people wish to purchase wheels from ebay, so be it...its a global economy...but at least let a domestic company have a crack at this important performance enhancer.

On the other points you made re the forks having being banned....well maybe the conversation needed to be had about maybe only allowing aftermarket 'alloy' wheels to minimize the extra cost's associated with the likes of Carbon wheels (even though personally I would love to see these allowed too...even tho we don't deal with them). This would be a simple answer in the same vein as allowing internal cartridges for the forks but not the entire forks. We never had the opportunity to have this discussion on Friday afternoon and I can tell you it would have been nice to have possibly cleared up some inaccurate cost presumptions that appear to have been made.

My thoughts re private imports etc are well documented but the unavoidable reality is it cannot be stopped and local business has to bend over and take it plus adapt and offer something that attracts business.

The reality is that when you buy a bike it comes with a set of wheels anyway. Unless the rider is earning 150k per annum or has a very generous and well heeled sponsor it is human nature that they will source the most cost effective spares. That is the point ( and the cold hard reality whether we like it or not) that you need to grasp.

[White trash]

Incidentally, if I was running in a Formula class I'd certainly at least consider the option of lightweight wheels to give myself the best fighting chance possible. Obviously, the rules permit them here so why aren't you pitching them at those racing in the F class Marcus?

(I'm not trying to be a funny cunt just wondering)

[Biggles08]

My thoughts re private imports etc are well documented but the unavoidable reality is it cannot be stopped and local business has to bend over and take it plus adapt and offer something that attracts business.

The reality is that when you buy a bike it comes with a set of wheels anyway. Unless the rider is earning 150k per annum or has a very generous and well heeled sponsor it is human nature that they will source the most cost effective spares. That is the point ( and the cold hard reality whether we like it or not) that you need to grasp.

I don't disagree with that at all, but its CARROZZERIA's job to show / promote the benefits of lighter wheels and why they should deal with us in NZ... I do grasp that concept completely...
Just to be a shit stirrer you do realize that when you buy a bike it also comes with suspension too (You did know I was going to say that right?!)

[Biggles08]

Incidentally, if I was running in a Formula class I'd certainly at least consider the option of lightweight wheels to give myself the best fighting chance possible. Obviously, the rules permit them here so why aren't you pitching them at those racing in the F class Marcus?

(I'm not trying to be a funny cunt just wondering)

Oh we will...LOL

The bigger market however is not the race market WT...its the road riders who will also benefit from upgrading their wheels. More coverage is given at National level so of course we would like to be able to showcase them at this level.

[White trash]

Take a lesson from sidecars before its too late for you guys too. Expensive bikes deplete the grid.
A full sidecar field last season probably cost the same as one five seasons ago, except that five seasons ago it was spread over thee times the number of machines worth an average of a third of the money each.

This is quite a good point but needs carefull consideration. The way I saw sidecar racing five seasons ago, no one could realistically take their machine overseas to compete as they simply weren't modern enough, now at least we have racers on more modern machinery who can and do take their rigs elsewhere to compete.

[Robert Taylor]

Linkages can be changed or modified for next year....

Thats ultimately BS as well. Because noise has been made about 1 Japanese bike with a very aggressive link. The late 90s S-Rad Suzukis also had a very aggressive link and to the best of my knowledge there were no noises then about legalising aftermarket links? For the record we tried one and it worked well but also Ohlins had a very trick rear shock spec that we have subsequently used in s-Rad Suzukis with stock links, it effects a HUGE improvement
The Triumph 675 and Ducati 848 thru 1198 also have bad links but you can make them work with a few tricks .

[Frenchy]

this is great.... i mean the weather is shit! and ive got nothing better to do so click on KiwiBiker for some afternoon entertainment

[Robert Taylor]

I don't disagree with that at all, but its CARROZZERIA's job to show / promote the benefits of lighter wheels and why they should deal with us in NZ... I do grasp that concept completely...
Just to be a shit stirrer you do realize that when you buy a bike it also comes with suspension too (You did know I was going to say that right?!)

Yes but you are missing my point and everyone elses about a line in the sand. And about fixing the weakest points first.

[White trash]

Oh we will...LOL

The bigger market however is not the race market WT...its the road riders who will also benefit from upgrading their wheels. More coverage is given at National level so of course we would like to be able to showcase them at this level.

Yeah, but let's be realistic mate. No one pays any attention to our National series. We're lucky if two races per meeting get televised. There's no spectators and the whole affair is simply a debacle. Quite frankly, (even before I raced) I didn't know or care who ran what brand of tyres on their race bikes. Actually, I lie, I knew Craig ran Dunlops but I still bought Metzeler because they were cheaper. Couldn't have told you who ran what suspension and I didn't care. Brand of wheels on the championship winning bike? Who the hell takes notice. And this is from a guy who took quite a lot of interest in the racing and results.

cv

[Kiwi Graham:Me]

I don't agree with cheque book racing, I've seen what it did in the UK several years ago.

The line for performance mods has to be drawn somewhere and where it is, is about right.
If you want a fully blinged up bike..............go out prove yourself on the domestic scene get your international license perform there and bingo you'll be riding something with more carbon fibre than you can shake a stick at costing the equivalent of a years salary to fix when its biffed.

Racing motorcycles is expensive enough as it is without making it possible to spend even more money on it.

I don't agree with slagging off those that have been there done that, earn't the respect and turned around and put it back in either, it's fukin shameful.

[Biggles08]

Yes but you are missing my point and everyone elses about a line in the sand. And about fixing the weakest points first.

I'm not really...I guessing we will have to just disagree on this one. I believe and have felt the improvements I get with the wheels...and because of this I believe them to be equally as important to suspension. They work together equally and CARROZZERIA wheels are not cost prohibitive in the open classes when we consider what is spent on them currently

[cowpoos]

This is quite a good point but needs carefull consideration. The way I saw sidecar racing five seasons ago, no one could realistically take their machine overseas to compete as they simply weren't modern enough, now at least we have racers on more modern machinery who can and do take their rigs elsewhere to compete.

Why penalize everyone in the country...for the few that want to race overseas?