Crash Poll - Take 2

[Katman]

If I don't set out every day expecting other road users to do stupid and dangerous shit, and if I don't expect gravel in the middle of the corner; I'm
dead.

That's right dumbarse - factoring in those points is addressing the way that we approach our motorcycling.

[shrub]

That's right dumbarse - factoring in those points is addressing the way that we approach our motorcycling.

What I keep trying to get through to you is that I actually agree with most of what you say (is that what makes me a dumbarse); but I believe that we ignore the risks presented by external factors at our cost, and I don't see that we should bend over and take it. I know that the work done by a number of motorcyclists, including Charley Lamb, has influenced ACC to the point where they are planning a campaign targeting car drivers about motorcycle safety.

My position is that it's up to me to look after my own safety, and I do so just like i don't play with loaded firearms or light matches in gas station forecourts, but i also believe that it is not OK for the role of other stakeholders to be ignored. If other people place me at risk, then why shouldn't I get upset and demand something be done about it? Why is the only valid response a passive acceptance?

[Katman]

but I believe that we ignore the risks presented by external factors at our cost, and I don't see that we should bend over and take it.

Who ever said we should ignore them?

Factor them in and ride accordingly.

[shrub]

Who ever said we should ignore them?

Factor them in and ride accordingly.

No, that's bending over and assuming the position. I don't take kindly to being fucked over and never have, especially when it come to my motorcycle and my safety. If I found some arsewipe planning to vandalise my bike he'd learn a big old lesson very quickly, so I'm not going to sit back and accept road conditions and behaviour from other road users that place my life and bike at risk. You may, but I won't.

[Katman]

No, that's bending over and assuming the position. I don't take kindly to being fucked over and never have, especially when it come to my motorcycle and my safety. If I found some arsewipe planning to vandalise my bike he'd learn a big old lesson very quickly, so I'm not going to sit back and accept road conditions and behaviour from other road users that place my life and bike at risk. You may, but I won't.

Nobody's going to listen to compliants about road conditions if they're made by those who are not alive to be able to make the complaints.

[shrub]

Nobody's going to listen to compliants about road conditions if they're made by those who are not alive to be able to make the complaints.

And even less people will listen to complaints by people who don't say or do anything. You seem to struggle to understand that it's not an either/or situation. One can ride intelligently, responsibly and carefully AND raise the issue of the external factors that impact on our freedom to ride safely.

Scary concept, hey?

[Katman]

And even less people will listen to complaints by people who don't say or do anything. You seem to struggle to understand that it's not an either/or situation. One can ride intelligently, responsibly and carefully AND raise the issue of the external factors that impact on our freedom to ride safely.

Scary concept, hey?

I have no problem understanding that concept.

But in order to be listened to seriously you have to be seen as rather more than just a whiney bitch intent on blaming all your ills on other people.

[mashman]

or a BMW

or an Aprilia on a windy day in Wellie

[p.dath]

incorrect if a motorcycle is left to its own devices it will always fall over,and in itself this is one of the biggest causes of motorcyclists injuries.They are inherently unstable

Like any inverted pendulum, it will only be unstable for a short period of time. Either it will sit on its side stand and be stable, or fall over and be stable. Either way it will rapidly become stable.

[p.dath]

'Which is the major influencing factor in motorcycle accidents'?

To much reading and not enough riding.

Touche. Lack of rider education is probably the biggest factor in rider error. If riders knew more they would probably make less mistakes ...

gravity. If there was no such thing as gravity bikes would just float into the sky and drift into eternity without hurting anyone.

Katman, you're a twat. I know you think that motorcyclist behaviour is the sole cause of crashes, but even the most responsible and highly skilled rider faces risk every time they get on their bike - if I'm sitting on my sensible BMW 650 wearing my safe flouro vest and safe white helmet, and the twat coming up behind me is too busy texting to see me and hits me, is it still my fault?

Assigning fault is pointless, as in this case you will still be injured. Who cares who's fault it was.

The more constructive point of view is that if you had observed the driver TXTing, and taken action to move yourself out of danger, you wouldn't get hurt.

Katman advocates situational awareness. I 100% agree with him. I don't care who did what wrong, I just don't want to get injured. A really good way for me to avoid getting hurt is to be very aware of all the dangers around me.

Now some people put assign greater risk to some factors than others. That's fine. Its personal choice. Dare I say it. Personal responsibility.

[p.dath]

gravity.

Let me re-dress this one. Gravity is not the greatest factor.

Most motorcycle "accidents" happen during daylight hours. So does that make daylight a key factor in accidents?

Most motorcycle accidents happen on motorcycles with tyres. So would removing the tyres off all motorcycles stop motorcycle accidents?


Just because something is happening at the same time does not make it a factor.

[shrub]

But in order to be listened to seriously you have to be seen as rather more than just a whiney bitch intent on blaming all your ills on other people.

Then why are you intent on blaming all the problems of motorcycle safety on motorcyclists? Yes, we have to ride safely, and it's a self selection process there where people who don't soon fall over, but we're not the only ones on the road. I know of changes that will happen that will impact positively on our safety because a few people have got off their arses and done something about the other factors, instead of just sitting back and complaining about motorcyclists.

[Banditbandit]

So therefore, the greatest gain we can make towards improving our lot in motorcycling is addressing the factors that we have greatest control over - i.e. ourselves.

Who the fuck suggested that was what we wanted to do !!!

[Katman]

Who the fuck suggested that was what we wanted to do !!!

If we don't address those issue you can be sure that we won't have seen the last of the adverse attention that TPTB have been directing towards us.

[Banditbandit]

If we don't address those issue you can be sure that we won't have seen the last of the adverse attention that TPTB have been directing towards us.

Mate ... we've been getting attention ever since Daimler and Maybach came up with the idea of bikes ... in the eyes of society we're an anti-social bunch of Larrikans ... and some of us actually like it that way ...

Get over it or get a car ...