ATGATT. Why? It doesn't affect anyone else?

[Toaster]

So when you jump on your bike for a quick fang, wearing inappropriate clothing and think it is nobody else's business, spare a thought for the innocent motorists who help you when it turns to shit. Spare a thought for the two crews of Volunteer Firemen who interrupted their holiday weekend to come to your aid. Spare a thought for the poor ambulance guy,your accident was his third today!

Put on some gear, and if you want to go fast..take it to the track...chances are I'll help you out there too!

It is all our business as we pay high ACC levies and taxes funding the repair and rehab of these idiots.

My gear and the sensible speed I travelled at that day saved me from much worse injury in 2008 after I was taken out in a crash. My kids still have a Dad who can run and play with them...

[rastuscat]

My problem is that I'm in the job for road safety reasons. I don't write tickets to gather revenue, despite what most espouse. I write tickets to change behaviour, and thus reduce road trauma.

That's why it drives me mad when people are fully complying with the law, but doing stupid stuff anyway. Like wearing the G-string and helmet on a Gixxer at 100km/h on the Northern Arterial. Legal, but stupid.

I guess I just need to get over it, as it ain't gonna change. You can't legislate for stupidity.

So there.

[Katman]

The issue here is that I don't have the right to impose my line on someone that has a different view of the matter without first demonstrating that what they're doing that I object to has a direct affect on someone other than themselves.

I think that's precisely what this thread is demonstrating.

Dude, see.... Katman figures that there's a guy pointing a gun at him and demanding cash from you. And as far as he can make out it's your fault he's at risk.

You clearly don't have a fucking clue what I figure.

[MSTRS:Me]

So ACC levies aren't mandatory?

Of course they aren't. Stop driving/riding/working for pay. Then you won't be asked for any contributions.

[PrincessBandit]

Wow, after reading all those pages I'm exhausted.

Guess I'm just a lucky little petal who is knows she looks heaps sexier and cooler on her bike under layers of leather and a helmet! - so with that attitude I'm in the ATGATT brigade by choice and quite happily.

Seriously though, after coming off my bike in a high speed slide I can almost guarantee I wouldn't be here today in one piece without my gear. I enjoy riding and if it means that gear will help me remain capable of riding for longer then that's all good by me. For those who don't want to wear the gear, when you come off ('cos it does happen sooner or later....) I guess you can just be happy with "my off/someone else [ACC] pays". Good for you.

[Grubber]

Now we’re going round in circles. I have never worn ATG because in all my years riding I have never owned ATG. I have also never fallen off. If I was of the view that crashing is inevitable then perhaps I would wear more protection. But it isn’t, so I don’t. And I resent people telling me what to do based on their experiences of falling off. Nothing personal, but you know, piss off. Your view of "some degree" just differs to mine, that's all.

Because you would die. Hardly a good comparison. If you ride a bike buck naked and crash you might die, you might not, it depends on a lot of factors which are within your control. Gravity isn’t.

Having said that, it is scientifically possible to jump without a parachute and survive if you can match your angle of fall with that of a long smooth piece of land, like a ski slope for example. Just needs someone with the balls to prove it.

Nothing personal but piss off???
So your view entitles you to eradicate all those that oppose it does it.
Jumping out of a plane with no chute is very much like riding naked. In either instance you may well live. It has happened but very much doubt it happened on purpose.
In my view you are very lucky you haven't crashed, not saying you will, but not saying you won't. Maybe you should stop wearing seatbelts too perhaps or does that not enter this equation either, simply cause it doesn't suit your argument.
Ok if you crash you may not die, but you will certainly receive some major injuries that I WILL PAY A PORTION OF.
Your arrogance in expecting me to do this annoys me.

You say that you don't have ATG. Why??
Are you super human and ride so well you will never fall off.
Very presumptuous of you i would have thought.
I have been riding and racing for some 35 years and have fallen off racing 2 times and 2 times on the road. Both road crashes were not my fault and those are the ones that are hard to avoid. I had ATG both times and only broke a rib on one occasion. One of the crashes was at 90kmh and was nicked by a car over taking me. I slid for 40 odd metres and got up without a scratch on me.
If you can guarantee me you won't crash and if you do you won't get a scratch on you and you won't need any of my hard earned tax money to put you back together, you go for it. Best of luck with that.

[MSTRS:Me]

But it's all about ME! I'm the important one. You plebs can go get stuffed.

That's the mantra, isn't it?

[Grubber]

IMO if you ride a motorcycle without a reasonable level of gear you're a fucking idiot.
I loathe being told what to do however from personal experience I know that wearing jeans (for instance) and binning (at LOW speeds) is farking painful and has cost you lot (on a level) money.
If you ride on the road and believe you potentially won't ever crash then you're one naive rider.

I don't need legislation to be smart enough to use my gear

Makes perfect sense to me. The idiot part about never going to crash says it all.
Make all the comparisons you want from parachutes to HELMETS to seatbelts and on the list goes all come under the sensible catagory
Seems to me a little common sense can make all the difference and those who choose to defy the odds against them are apparently quite happy for me to foot the bill.
I don't ride expecting to crash but i do take the common sense approach just in case a bad day at the office may occur

[Grubber]

I totally agree. I've never said otherwise. The word direct is the important point. By direct I mean (as an extreme example) if you choose to commit murder.


Some might call me young but I was out of high school several years before my bike was built.

All I'm advocating is personal responsibility.

Your terminolgy for DIRECT may be somewhat extreme to me. Aside from murder, which i really don't think can be related to this argument, is on the outer fringes.

If all you are advocating is personal responsibility, then we agree. It sounds like we have a slightly different idea of what exactly that is.
I believe it represents your social and personal accountability to both your family members as well as your fellow man. That involves (for me anyway) taking all precautions to protect yours and your fellow mans lives and bodies.
Thats me all done!

[swbarnett]

I think that's precisely what this thread is demonstrating.

Yes, there is an effect, but the effect is not direct. The act of murder illustrates what I mean by a driect effect. Not wearing the gear can hardly be said to have a direct effect in the same way.

[MarkH]

Guess I'm just a lucky little petal who is knows she looks heaps sexier and cooler on her bike under layers of leather and, of course, a helmet

Chances are that you also look sexier off the bike without huge scars from where the skin got scraped off during an accident. I know many people think that it is fine to choose to ride while wearing a t-shirt & shorts - but I suspect they would regret that decision if they found themselves in hospital with road rash worse than they could have dreamt of.

Me - I like my skin and would prefer it not get scraped off if I had an accident. I would also prefer not to have an accident, but sometimes shit happens.

[swbarnett]

But it's all about ME! I'm the important one. You plebs can go get stuffed.

That's the mantra, isn't it?

Not at all. It's all about creating a society that respects individuality and engenders freedom and caring for all around you. For me it's as much about your right to choose to wear gear as it is about another's right to choose not to.

How would you feel if the position was reversed and you were pressured to not wear the gear because everyone around you thought you were a wimp for doing so? Or if those gearless daredevils got a law inacted preventing you from wearing the gear?

I wear the gear because I choose to. I like having the right to choose and respect another's right to choose not to.


As a side not, I wonder if there are any cyclists amongst us that are in the ATGATT brigade? Do you believe that bicycle road racers should be wearing the same gear as motorcyclists when they're travelling at high speed on the downhill sections?

[swbarnett]

Jumping out of a plane with no chute is very much like riding naked.

Where did you learn physics? I've corrected your post below:

Jumping out of a plane with no chute is very much like crashing naked.

[MSTRS:Me]

Yes, there is an effect, but the effect is not direct.

Of course it is direct. A rider is hurt in a crash. The money machine rolls in to save him. He doesn't have gear? Chances are he'll be much more hurt. And the money machine gets to fork out more to save him.
How much more direct can you get?

How would you feel if the position was reversed and you were pressured to not wear the gear because everyone around you thought you were a wimp for doing so?

I don't like un-necessary pain etc, so I'd be wearing the gear anyway.

[Grubber]

Where did you learn physics? I've corrected your post below:

Obviously not a good communicator. Anyone else would have got my point....never mind, your on a mission, so it suits you better this way.

Actually i will expalin.....jumping out of a plane won't kill you just the same as riding naked won't kill you. It's the sudden stop that may well do that.
There is that better for you to understand!