Islamisation

[marie_speeds]

Now what was that tactic I read somewhere ....oh that's right...divide and conquer or something like that...

[avgas]

You can only understand the present if you understand how we got where we are - and then you can plan the future ...

So tell me. Was the plan just complaining about everything?
I agree with the statement. But not even the world wars had a grieving period this long.

[rustyrobot]

- Not picking the best person for the job.
- The ability to identify an individual.
- Not having to remove someone from a situation.
- The removal of the community to the seclusion of the individual.

I am all for respect, but you are opening pandora's box with questions like that.

I still fail to see how these are the major problems facing our societies at the moment. Yeah, I agree it is a pandora's box. Does that mean we shouldn't go there? Just because there are a lot of angry white men who feel hard done by, I don't think that challenging the idea that 'political correctness' is the all pervading ill of our society is something that shouldn't be done. It is totally heading off-topic again though (or is it?).

Also, don't understand what you mean by
- The ability to identify an individual.
and
- The removal of the community to the seclusion of the individual.

[avgas]

Now what was that tactic I read somewhere ....oh that's right...divide and conquer or something like that...

Its working for the Maori party.
and Winston Peters.
and Destiny Church.

Pity it backlashed on you

[marie_speeds]

Its working for the Maori party.
and Winston Peters.
and Destiny Church.

Pity it backlashed on you

Are they all Islamists too?

Me confoosed now

Right back to work whilst I figure that out

[avgas]

I still fail to see how these are the major problems facing our societies at the moment. Yeah, I agree it is a pandora's box. Does that mean we shouldn't go there? Just because there are a lot of angry white men who feel hard done by, I don't think that challenging the idea that 'political correctness' is the all pervading ill of our society is something that shouldn't be done. It is totally heading off-topic again though (or is it?).

There are angry men all round. You seem to be one of them. Fact of the matter is all except a select few are not hard done by - its called life. You can step off anytime you like.
I do think that everything should be looked at in some point. Which is why likewise political correctness also should be looked at.
PC also hits a point where it goes from providing, to excluding. I have seen this myself from personal experience, and I think that in these situations surely someone should pick up that its just wrong.
But I could not speak up against these things, much like anyone else - simply due to the fact that is was PC to do it.......but not PC to question it.

Also, don't understand what you mean by
1) The ability to identify an individual.
and
2) The removal of the community to the seclusion of the individual.

1) is actually quite particular, when acting PC, how do you identify someone as friend or foe if it goes against some Else's beliefs. However a friend working security in Afghanistan (don't argue why he was there......its just a case of doing his job if he liked it or not - like the rest of us) found his own conscience was tested. He could not identify friend or foe. This does not always mean covering your face - but it does mean not having the ability to question an individual. The Maori suffered a similar fate - as it was considered rude to question an individual. This cost man brave warriors who were treated like Pawns simply because of acting PC.

2) In many circumstances the community used to monitor itself. It is now not PC for this to happen anymore (for many reasons) - so this has been pushed outwards to "unbiased" members to do this. I am not saying the community thing has dropped all together - but I am seeing more and more people becoming isolated, as people are too scared to tread on their "individual" rights,

[avgas]

Are they all Islamists too?

Me confoosed now

Right back to work whilst I figure that out

No no no
thats National

Labour is Christian extremists.

[R-Soul]

Well, the point is that NZ is their home now and "Salaam Aleikhom" is not a word in the English or Maori dictionary.

The languages of NZ are English, Maori and NZ sign language.

" Giddy mate, how ya goin'" would be more fitting.

Given the reputation of Muslims for settling all over the world, building mosks, and killing people, I say that we should smile politely, but carry a big stick.

If any more of them try highjacking planes or what ever, then the only thing you will here from most Kiwis is "piss off Abdul".

I say it is the responsibility of all the Muslims to destroy the networks of the "extremists "..... Achieve that, and I will help build a Mosk or 2..... In Siberia.

It is your type of hate and suspicion and exlusion that causes rifts in our society, and breed niches for extremists.

Moderate muslims have no control over extremist muslim cells than most Christians in teh US have over the Ku Klux Kan (??). It is your thinking of "us' and "them" that is incorrect. There is no difference.

[rustyrobot]

There are angry men all round. You seem to be one of them.

Do I? I must re-read my posts before submitting them then, that's not how they feel when I type them.

1) is actually quite particular, when acting PC, how do you identify someone as friend or foe if it goes against some Else's beliefs. However a friend working security in Afghanistan (don't argue why he was there......its just a case of doing his job if he liked it or not - like the rest of us) found his own conscience was tested. He could not identify friend or foe. This does not always mean covering your face - but it does mean not having the ability to question an individual. The Maori suffered a similar fate - as it was considered rude to question an individual. This cost man brave warriors who were treated like Pawns simply because of acting PC.

2) In many circumstances the community used to monitor itself. It is now not PC for this to happen anymore (for many reasons) - so this has been pushed outwards to "unbiased" members to do this. I am not saying the community thing has dropped all together - but I am seeing more and more people becoming isolated, as people are too scared to tread on their "individual" rights,

I am still confused what you mean by those two things.

I think it has become easy and popular to label anything that you don't like as 'PC'. I think we all have wildly different ideas of what political correctness means, and I'm sure that doesn't help. I also think that we are all in a similar trap or feeling constrain by laws that we don't like, but wanting more laws to enforce what we do like.

When you said "all except a select few are not hard done by" do you mean "all except a select few ARE hard done by"? Because that's the way it seems to me. In fact I'd suggest that as Marie_speeds has said, these arguments are mostly a result of the divide and conquer tactic. Nearly everyone in NZ feels hard-done by and I believe they are (although possibly in a different way to what those people might think). Where it goes wrong is that we all blame each other and meanwhile the people who benefit from all of this disharmony and in-fighting sit and watch, reap in the profits and live like kings and queens.

[rustyrobot]

No no no
thats National

Labour is Christian extremists.

Nah, PeterDunne and Brian Tamaki are christian extremists, National and Labour are capitalist extremists.

[SS90]

It is your type of hate and suspicion and exlusion that causes rifts in our society, and breed niches for extremists.

Moderate muslims have no control over extremist muslim cells than most Christians in teh US have over the Ku Klux Kan (??). It is your thinking of "us' and "them" that is incorrect. There is no difference.

Sorry pal, You could not be more wrong.

I live in Austria.... As such I carry a special I.D card ( I must have it all times) That identifies me as an "Außlander", I had to have severe security checks on my past, and had the "Stadt Polizi" come to my apartment 3 times, interview my employers wife, and 2 interviews myself, and my employer had to use a lawyer before I could stay..... And I already had been living in central Europe for 3 years before that, had the qualifications, had a work contract and 2 letters of reference from international businesses.

I have faced racism head on for about 5 months.... And I tell you it is no fun at all.

I am told less that 30% of applicants are allowed residency.

I have no Ill will toward any person based on their skin colour or race.

Plain and Simple, if you religion commands you to kill anyone else based on their religion then I don't want the religion to have a "base" in my country when I come home to raise my family.

It is just like what has happened when the "unsmakable" generation came of age.

Be Muslim, but if you come to NZ, you have to relalise that we are are secular country...... If we cave in to PC bullshit, we are going to mirror what has happened in England...... Shit man the Bus bombings where carried out by British nationals....... 20 years time it will be NZ, then you will care.

[rustyrobot]

Plain and Simple, if you religion commands you to kill anyone else based on their religion then I don't want the religion to have a "base" in my country when I come home to raise my family.

Argh! Too late - there are christians everywhere back here!

It is just like what has happened when the "unsmakable" generation came of age.

You think the people committing violent crime in New Zealand are the ones who had no smacking in their lives? I work with violent offenders and I would say that 90% of them had violent parents (either mother, father or both). I think the problems you envision come when the smacking generation realise they don't know any way of dealing with their problems other than the family fist.

Be Muslim, but if you come to NZ, you have to relalise that we are are secular country...... If we cave in to PC bullshit, we are going to mirror what has happened in England...... Shit man the Bus bombings where carried out by British nationals....... 20 years time it will be NZ, then you will care.

Can we just ban religion altogether then?
I don't know how I end up feeling like I'm defending the Taleban. I'd be more than happy if they disappeared from the face on the earth. Same with Destiny Church. I know some muslim's who would never hurt anyone and just want to go about their lives, i know some christians who are the same, heck I even know some non-religious people who don't feel the need to push their beliefs on other people, and don't feel the need to kill anyone in the course of their lives.

Surely it's extremism of all flavours that needs to be addressed, not singling out random religions, ethnicities or the like.

[Hans]

I won't wade into the debate on who exactly is an extremist, fascist, socialist, communist or religious bigot. My take goes like this: If you threaten MY (as opposed to ''our'') way of life, or the way of life of my tribe (used loosely) you may as well fuck off. If you don't fuck off all options are on the table. This includes violence. This doesn't apply just to Muslims. They just happen to be one of the groups I perceive to be threating my way of life. The list is, however, a long one.

[oldrider]

When quietly musing over my thoughts of religion and it's associated trouble in the world, the thought came to me!

If there was no religion at all, how bad would the behaviour be of those who now use their religion to modify their behaviour with respect for the law of their religion?

If you think about it maybe we have more to thank religion for than we do actually have to curse it for!

The silent majority who do not mess with our lives, probably only do so "because of their religion"!

The world is such a great place...(sigh)...pity about the people on it!

[Oscar]

When quietly musing over my thoughts of religion and it's associated trouble in the world, the thought came to me!

If there was no religion at all, how bad would the behaviour be of those who now use their religion to modify their behaviour with respect for the law of their religion?

If you think about it maybe we have more to thank religion for than we do actually have to curse it for!

The silent majority who do not mess with our lives, probably only do so "because of their religion"!

The world is such a great place...(sigh)...pity about the people on it!

A lot of the bad things that we attribute to religion are actually cultural.
Honour killings and burqa's are a good example.