Invite - 2nd protest against police pursuits today

[Clockwork]

OK. Just to turn this debate upon its head a litte. How many of the 13 people killed in the past twelve months were killed by or were in fact themselves violent offenders who needed to be stopped at any cost!

Seriously people, if you or any member of your "nearest and dearest" were killed by of one of thees incidents would you consider it a price worth paying on behalf of society?

[BoristheBiter]

I have a degree in health science from Victoria, but it doesn't take that to see that the current policy is a hash up - including for reasons like those given by Boris . If you want to be snobby about chat pals whats your qual for your hot air discharge BTB?
What this thread makes clear is that Police are working in an unsupported harsh operational environment, much like Mt Everest. So policy adjustments will need to include consideration of wide issues and maybe complementary advances to just changing "the rules of engagement", like tech and penalty and traffic law impact reviews. Obviously our toll stats show traffic law is not meeting objectives.
One thing is a given, if we present it to Collins that guns can supercede chases that'll work. I s'pose knowing that instant justice of a bullet ambling by might be quite a disincentive to all but the fool-hardiest. Swift, certain.... beats the Court system by a long shot.
Next protest - give the Police guns, give the police guns, give the police guns.... save their dogs from being heros.

FYI all my quals are in engineering and from knowing a few people on the front line.
what i was getting at was you bagged Collins for what she had a masters in and impliying that she couldn't do the job because of this.

I think you have stated to loose the plot a bit now as in Everset the sherpas don't run when chased.

[davereid]

Come on then miss high-and-mighty, what is your qualifications in this matter? What masters degree do you hold?? Or are just full of hot air and BS?

Hmm.

I have lots of qualifications.

But I never "brag" about my skill list. I just do the job.

So I know lots of "Modern" engineers, managers, scientists and professionals. And most of them are at best average, and usually would not have "passed" under the do it before you brag system.

I have NEVER met anyone with a degree that impressed me because of their university gained knowledge.

In fact, normally when someone attempts to convince me that they know the answer "because they have a Ph.D." I know I have just won the debate, as I have found a well educated idiot.

And anyone who disparages the efforts of someone who doesn't have the lolly scramble degrees offered by NZ Universities falls even lower in the heap.

In fact, I know lots of auto electricians that I would trust to build a nuclear power station.

But I don't know a single modern "Ph.D." that I would let change my oil.

If you profess that a "degree" is either a measurement of intelligence, ability or skill, or that opinions can be ignored if not offered by an appropriately qualified individual you are an idiot.

[candor]

A training of any kind - including some years on the planet - just imparts a vantage point.
The most useful "degreed" or post grad types I know assume little apart from what that of which they're reasonably certain, and are also open minded to input from other perspectives. They actively mull things over, never sit firm on initial positions. If education or life hasn't taught learners mind what's the point - we'd still be riding donkeys.
There are ivory tower PhDs who're full of nonsense - one even headbangs if exposed to alternate ideas, but some I consult in times of confusion are passionate truth seekers who'll look at any and all evidence trying to see the buts and bolts - usually well before putting forth a "best take" on things.

It appears to me that Collins taxation degree may have coloured her perspective on road safety and learners mind is not her bag. Llook at the tone of her speeches - no humility or uncertainty there. "She will, she will TAX you". (Freddy). Two law degrees - no common sense? There again, is the speech representative of the speaker at all in Parliament or are MPs just ghost writers tools? I know constituents who visited her found her rather a brick wall, and that incredible hulk cartoon... makes her out as a fit bride only for the Governator of California. Though disparate views on dope could break the deal. Actually she's hard to read - might be like a Winston without the Colgate smile.

PS I got a great education from a lecturer I presume was only qualified by exprience and hard out personal research yesterday. A cops wife whose child was killed leaving a school bus. She'd researched the issues, presented her view on possible changes to redice injury, and also communicated her Policeman husbands view which was different to hers, due to his pracical Policing experience. If I have it right she is a bit keen on all vehicles stopping when a bus unloads per US protocols, her hubby thought the 20k speed drop in current law was not practical or enforceable and it should raise to 40 k but a lot of other interventions like child education etc be used.
Both bereaved parents seemed to agree the 20 k rule is ineffective - and then there was input from engineers about tech and environment aids like flashing speed signage on buses (which a Police audience member said its ineffective & Transit is against as its a speed limit sign doh!) and physical changes to drop off points. Difficult given much rural terrain... it was a good session where many angles got examined.

[red mermaid]

You also said once you knew how to build a speed radar but that doesn't mean you know the first thing about sitting in a patrol car using one.

Hmm.

I have lots of qualifications.

But I never "brag" about my skill list. I just do the job.

So I know lots of "Modern" engineers, managers, scientists and professionals. And most of them are at best average, and usually would not have "passed" under the do it before you brag system.

I have NEVER met anyone with a degree that impressed me because of their university gained knowledge.

In fact, normally when someone attempts to convince me that they know the answer "because they have a Ph.D." I know I have just won the debate, as I have found a well educated idiot.

And anyone who disparages the efforts of someone who doesn't have the lolly scramble degrees offered by NZ Universities falls even lower in the heap.

In fact, I know lots of auto electricians that I would trust to build a nuclear power station.

But I don't know a single modern "Ph.D." that I would let change my oil.

If you profess that a "degree" is either a measurement of intelligence, ability or skill, or that opinions can be ignored if not offered by an appropriately qualified individual you are an idiot.

[davereid]

You also said once you knew how to build a speed radar but that doesn't mean you know the first thing about sitting in a patrol car using one.

Lol that's quite right ! You have got me there fair and square.

[marty]

No-one's losing sleep over the minor offenders that got away without even being prompted to murder.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...1.3567571.html

Top police brass said Tuesday they stand by the (Dallas) department's restrictive chase policy... (violent offenders only chased) ...
drastic reduction in deaths and injuries since the current policy was implemented in June 2006.

No innocent bystanders have been killed during a police pursuit since the policy was put in place.

Dallas police reported 361 pursuits in 2004 and 354 in 2005. That total dropped to 200 in 2006 and has plummeted further, to 70 in 2007, 39 in 2008, 31 last year and 24 so far this year.

SEEMS BY CHILLING OUT DALLAS COPS CHILLED THE TOLL OUT TOO. NOW A CHASE TALE REALLY MEANS SOMETHING.

Interesting when you cut and paste only the information that you want. From the same article:

Now, the department is looking at loosening that policy and adding other reasons police can chase

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/chase-99995234.html

Who watched The Daily Show last night? John Stewart did the same thing in jest...

[wharfy]

Interesting when you cut and paste only the information that you want. From the same article:

Now, the department is looking at loosening that policy and adding other reasons police can chase

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/chase-99995234.html

Who watched The Daily Show last night? John Stewart did the same thing in jest...

Now, the department is looking at loosening that policy and adding other reasons police can chase, including deadly conduct when someone is shooting a gun in the air.

My turn to cut and paste (and add emphasis ) - deadly conduct and firearms offenses - That would be a good place for NZ police to start.

[candor]

Quite Wharfy. And if I see an offender and a cop engaging in the deadly conduct tango of a high speed pursuit that is putting hundys of lives at risk - may I chase them in order to try and stop them? Or maybe to let them know they are polluting the environment and putting the gas bill up. It breaches the anti cruising and go economically by parking up strategically ideal.
Back to comparing U.S. chase policies - note the massively lower numbers of chases per head of population. Could be to do with the LAWS AGAINST quotas passed in some States.

13 good reasons to change chase policy from the last year - hope that no reader is 14

Deadly force incident 1
Deadly force incident 2...

And the Police Conduct Authorities hints

[scumdog]

Quite Wharfy. And if I see an offender and a cop engaging in the deadly conduct tango of a high speed pursuit that is putting hundys of lives at risk - may I chase them in order to try and stop them? Or maybe to let them know they are polluting the environment and putting the gas bill up.

(In best Al Borland voice):"I don't thinks so Tim" (and you know it)

You're starting so sound like a greenie version of SMOKEU....

[marty]

Quite Wharfy. And if I see an offender and a cop engaging in the deadly conduct tango of a high speed pursuit that is putting hundys of lives at risk - may I chase them in order to try and stop them? Or maybe to let them know they are polluting the environment and putting the gas bill up. It breaches the anti cruising and go economically by parking up strategically ideal.
Back to comparing U.S. chase policies - note the massively lower numbers of chases per head of population. Could be to do with the LAWS AGAINST quotas passed in some States.

13 good reasons to change chase policy from the last year - hope that no reader is 14

Deadly force incident 1
Deadly force incident 2...

And the Police Conduct Authorities hints

Hundys of lives? No wonder people take you so seriously

[SMOKEU]

Back to comparing U.S. chase policies - note the massively lower numbers of chases per head of population. Could be to do with the LAWS AGAINST quotas passed in some States.

If the real criminals are in jail, then they can't be out on bail cruising the streets looking for trouble like in NZ.

[Kickaha]

If the real criminals are in jail, then they can't be out on bail cruising the streets looking for trouble like in NZ.

Yeah because where you're from is so much better

[BoristheBiter]

A training of any kind - including some years on the planet - just imparts a vantage point.
The most useful "degreed" or post grad types I know assume little apart from what that of which they're reasonably certain, and are also open minded to input from other perspectives. They actively mull things over, never sit firm on initial positions. If education or life hasn't taught learners mind what's the point - we'd still be riding donkeys.
There are ivory tower PhDs who're full of nonsense - one even headbangs if exposed to alternate ideas, but some I consult in times of confusion are passionate truth seekers who'll look at any and all evidence trying to see the buts and bolts - usually well before putting forth a "best take" on things.

It appears to me that Collins taxation degree may have coloured her perspective on road safety and learners mind is not her bag. Llook at the tone of her speeches - no humility or uncertainty there. "She will, she will TAX you". (Freddy). Two law degrees - no common sense? There again, is the speech representative of the speaker at all in Parliament or are MPs just ghost writers tools? I know constituents who visited her found her rather a brick wall, and that incredible hulk cartoon... makes her out as a fit bride only for the Governator of California. Though disparate views on dope could break the deal. Actually she's hard to read - might be like a Winston without the Colgate smile.

.

So what you are saying is everyone is wrong beacuase you are correct, is that it?

This thread will just continue to go around in circles as we all have our own veiw point.
we all exect the death of innocent parties is the biproduct of people running from the police.

Whether you make the laws tougher or weaker you will allways have innocent people dieing on the roads because of the dickheads who are out there on them,

[candor]

So what you are saying is everyone is wrong beacuase you are correct, is that it?

Whether you make the laws tougher or weaker you will allways have innocent people dieing on the roads because of the dickheads who are out there on them,

Bump following deaths of 2 more innocent captive passengers in Onehunga - teens reportedly.

Not everyone is wrong or thoughtless may be a better word - there is some support for what I'm saying, this threads content from some squeaky wheels is not representative of the quiet people who private message support or green bling.
The point is not whether there will always be innocent or other deaths - it is that they are minimised by better approaches most everywhere else.
Its just that NZ has a tard approach to road safety that promotes more dickhead actions from dickheads - which really makes us apathetic Kiwis look like dickheads who like to swim in a floodwater of blood relative to other civilised countries. Or sheep off to the works because we trust the farmer. You gotta know when to hold 'em, when to walk away...