Police saving our lives again

[Edbear]

I would say speed scams cause accidents as they force people to look at an insignificant needle on an insignificant dial instead of the road & the decrease in fatalities we observe is only because of an increase in safety devices in vehicles. I also believe the general public is put in greater danger by cops running these scams instead of doing their job, we've all heard of the child abuse cases going un-investigated, & alot of rape victims will tell you they feel ignored (for want of a better word) after talking to police.

I believe the data showed that it isn't the speed cameras themselves that cause accidents, its the downstream effect that drivers are spending too much time watching their speedo's, and less time watching the road. It is a similar effect noticed in other countries that where speed enforcement is reduced and/or speed limits raised there are fewer accidents, and where speed limits are reduced and/or speed enforcement is increased the accident rate also increases .

Does this mean I'm a rare and exceptional driver/rider, the fact that I can drive/ride on the road for 40 years, with two minor speeding tickets, of 61 and 112km/h, no accidents until I spun on oil at less than 50km/h back in May and no concerns when I'm driving about whether there is a camera car around the next corner?

Do you seriously believe that keeping an eye on your speed is so dangerous that you can't possibly abide by the law without risking death? That the death toll is really the Police's fault because drivers are expected to know how fast they are going without crashing and killing themseves..?

[HondaSTrider]

Do you seriously believe that keeping an eye on your speed is so dangerous that you can't possibly abide by the law without risking death? ~~~~..?

I wouldn't go that far.... but as per my previous post I know I had my eyes on the speedo FAR more than should be necessary for normal travelling. Mind you... that was mostly out of sheer bloody-mindedness so as not to give them the slightest reason to pull us over! 4 km/hr is a VERY small margin to keep within given the state of our roads, hills and bends, winds, etc etc. Of course being the bloody-minded type that I am I didn't see the need to go slower than 100 km/hr either if I could help it! (all within the bounds of safety of course!)

I would agree with other posters though that speed alone does NOT warrant the scrutiny that MP's et al would have us believe. If they are going to continue with that line at least put ALL revenue back into safety and training!

[Ocean1]

I believe the data showed that it isn't the speed cameras themselves that cause accidents, its the downstream effect that drivers are spending too much time watching their speedo's, and less time watching the road. It is a similar effect noticed in other countries that where speed enforcement is reduced and/or speed limits raised there are fewer accidents, and where speed limits are reduced and/or speed enforcement is increased the accident rate also increases .

There's a, (individually diverse but) powerful behavioural imperative hard wired into all of us. It's a real-time risk assessment routine and it regulates, (amongst other things) our speed on the road, it prevents us from dying many times a day.

Any attempt to subvert it is going to succeeded only if it artificially modifies our risk perception. There’s a bit of that going on in modern traffic control protocols, but you notice we learn to ignore them pretty quickly.

In short: we’ll do what speed we feel best doing.

End of fucking story.

[Scuba_Steve]

Does this mean I'm a rare and exceptional driver/rider, the fact that I can drive/ride on the road for 40 years, with two minor speeding tickets, of 61 and 112km/h, no accidents until I spun on oil at less than 50km/h back in May and no concerns when I'm driving about whether there is a camera car around the next corner?

Do you seriously believe that keeping an eye on your speed is so dangerous that you can't possibly abide by the law without risking death? That the death toll is really the Police's fault because drivers are expected to know how fast they are going without crashing and killing themseves..?

firstly yes you probably are
secondly to an extent yes. I too can watch speed & road but choose not to as it is much safer watching road alone (& hell I like safe speed) But look at the general public who struggle to operate their automatic cars that a 4yr old could drive & rely on pretty little coloured lights to tell them what to do, safer/easier roads/cars have made worse drivers & speed scams have NEVER been clearly shown to decrease road tolls in-fact there is just as much evidence to suggest they increase the road toll, but there is plenty of evidence to show they increase accidents & take cops away from their core duties thus putting the general public in danger NOT through road alone but like mentioned un-investigated child abuse cases, rape cases, thefts, P's still on the increase & the only ones that seem to be doing anything against that is customs.

Would you not rather see the cops doing something about these child abuse cases, the P "epidemic" etc. rather than making another $38mil for the Govt??? I know I would

[Edbear]

I wouldn't go that far.... but as per my previous post I know I had my eyes on the speedo FAR more than should be necessary for normal travelling. Mind you... that was mostly out of sheer bloody-mindedness so as not to give them the slightest reason to pull us over! 4 km/hr is a VERY small margin to keep within given the state of our roads, hills and bends, winds, etc etc. Of course being the bloody-minded type that I am I didn't see the need to go slower than 100 km/hr either if I could help it! (all within the bounds of safety of course!)

I would agree with other posters though that speed alone does NOT warrant the scrutiny that MP's et al would have us believe. If they are going to continue with that line at least put ALL revenue back into safety and training!

Living up here means that you find yourself in this situation regularly, either being followed by a cop or coming up behind one on the motorway. Sure, you do look more frequently at the speedo, but I never worry overmuch and usually end up passing the cop in front as they are normally only doing 90-95km/h. If I'm doing 105 I don't back off.

I just find it amusing that people blame the Police for doing their job and not the drivers having the accidents. The post I said "Pardon" to implied that the Police were gathering revenue "at the expense of lives". How does that work..?

[scumdog]

Would you not rather see the cops doing something about these child abuse cases, the P "epidemic" etc. rather than making another $38mil for the Govt??? I know I would

Slow down everbody - then the cops won't have to hand out tickets, the Govt won't get $38mil and all the child abuse cases will be solved and 'P' dealers/makers will be locked up.

Sorted.

[Edbear]

firstly yes you probably are
secondly to an extent yes. I too can watch speed & road but choose not to as it is much safer watching road alone (& hell I like safe speed) But look at the general public who struggle to operate their automatic cars that a 4yr old could drive & rely on pretty little coloured lights to tell them what to do, safer/easier roads/cars have made worse drivers & speed scams have NEVER been clearly shown to decrease road tolls in-fact there is just as much evidence to suggest they increase the road toll, but there is plenty of evidence to show they increase accidents & take cops away from their core duties thus putting the general public in danger NOT through road alone but like mentioned un-investigated child abuse cases, rape cases, thefts, P's still on the increase & the only ones that seem to be doing anything against that is customs.

Would you not rather see the cops doing something about these child abuse cases, the P "epidemic" etc. rather than making another $38mil for the Govt??? I know I would

Sorry, I don't buy that. What is your normal cruising speed? If you know, and if you generally travel at that speed, the real issue is that you simply want to travbvel faster than the law allows and not be ticketed for it. As for taking cops away, do you seriously think the public will Police themselves re: speed limits? Sure, many if not most drivers are incompetent but it doesn't excuse speeding. The speed limit has to be arbitrary and enforceable, simple logic. If you personally don't like it you can move to another country or lobby for a law change.

The argument about other Police concerns is a red-herring and innacurate. These issues are taken very seriously by the Police and if you are unbiased enough to enquire, you'll be able to find out what efforts are being put in to resolving them.

[trailblazer]

Slow down everbody - then the cops won't have to hand out tickets, the Govt won't get $38mil and all the child abuse cases will be solved and 'P' dealers/makers will be locked up.

Sorted.

you forgot to add all the 10 year old murder and missing people cases will all be solved aswell.

[Broomrider]

And then there's the case of the idiot who let us ALL down. A high speed chase through the built up area of Greymouth heading south after the street-racing event there involving 3 police cars and a speeding motorcyclist!

I was pleased I wasn't on the road at the time but was aprehensive following the same route out of town a little later as to what mess I would encounter around the next bend.
If the rider involved frequents this forum, you can consider yourself a Grade One Oxygen thief!

[Brian d marge]

at the end of the day they have a job to do, and have been instructed (and indoctrinated) to make policing speed the primary solution to the road toll, which is a strategy that is doomed to failure for a few simple reasons:

1. Driving in cars and (especially) riding bikes is inherently dangerous, especially at speeds above around 30 kmh. No matter what laws get passed, no matter how good we are as drivers/riders and no matter how safe cars are made; as long as we have current technology they're dangerous. We either live with that, and accept that people will crash or we take up walking.

2. Speed is not the problem, excessive speed for the conditions present when driving/riding is the problem, and the conditions are not confined to road and weather. A major condition is the ability of the driver/rider to use their machine, and that in turn is influenced by skill and by their personal and immediate condition (tiredness, sobriety etc) and another condition influencing appropriates of a given speed is the level of distraction present - passengers, cell phones, stereos, pretty girls on the footpath etc.

3. Policing 2 very limited influencing factors (speed relative to arbitrarily decided speed limits) and sobriety) at the expense of managing and influencing almost every other factor is almost dishonest.

The modern politically correct nanny state way is to pass a law against something, and we will see the tolerance dropped to 4 kmh soon enough. We will also see laws passed against other stuff, but they will achieve little and cost freedom. What needs to happen is to educate the public and make driving a privelege not a right. If people switched their brains on before they got behind the wheel/behind bars the cops could go and do something useful and prevent crime.

completly agree , its not hard to solve the roading issue its just that they don't want to ,

I thinks it also stems from a poor and under educated society something which no amount of laws can cure ...

Stephen

[SpeedMonger]

Does this mean I'm a rare and exceptional driver/rider, the fact that I can drive/ride on the road for 40 years, with two minor speeding tickets, of 61 and 112km/h, no accidents until I spun on oil at less than 50km/h back in May and no concerns when I'm driving about whether there is a camera car around the next corner?

No what it does mean is that you could possibly be the most boring biker on the planet.

The arbitrary implementation of a generic speed limit on an open road is a complete farce. Everyone with more than half a brain (politicians and certain elements of the rozza therefore excluded) understands that safe speed is condition appropriate.

Riding (driving more so) at the open road speed limit can be tedious and boring, and is a catalyst for inattention / distraction, consequently causing incidents. This is why cagers cause more accidents than bikers, they can become so disassociated with the experience of driving that they switch off.

I believe that "speeding" within the real maximum safe limit for the conditions / vehicle can make you a safer rider / driver if you are focused on what you are doing.

The open road speed limit should be OPEN

[Brian d marge]

The open road speed limit should be OPEN

not if you have a public health care system that is paid for out the Tax take ...( the real reason they want the road toll down )

Stephen

[oldrider]

The open road speed limit should be OPEN

I agree with above statement but:

With fewer clearer laws, well policed and with greater emphasis on dangerous driving offences with really appropriate penalties!

Random driver "fitness to drive" testing would keep us on our toes and up to date with road law.

More personal responsibility with accountability ..... that what gets "measured" gets done!

Random "fitness to drive" testing would be my personal greatest fear, if it were activated and enforced.

I feel I am a reasonably confident and competent driver/rider but could do with tweeking it up a bit all round if I am really honest with myself. (never do today what you can put off until tomorrow, attitude prevails)

I see some sub par driving and behaviour out on our roads at times and I think to myself, how do others see me on the road?

Robbie Burns little ditty: "Would that god the gift to give us, to see ourselves as others see us" springs to mind!

[Edbear]

No what it does mean is that you could possibly be the most boring biker on the planet.

The arbitrary implementation of a generic speed limit on an open road is a complete farce. Everyone with more than half a brain (politicians and certain elements of the rozza therefore excluded) understands that safe speed is condition appropriate.

Riding (driving more so) at the open road speed limit can be tedious and boring, and is a catalyst for inattention / distraction, consequently causing incidents. This is why cagers cause more accidents than bikers, they can become so disassociated with the experience of driving that they switch off.

I believe that "speeding" within the real maximum safe limit for the conditions / vehicle can make you a safer rider / driver if you are focused on what you are doing.

The open road speed limit should be OPEN

So you're saying that unless everyone is allowed unlimited speed on the open road you are all in grave danger of crashing and dying? Observations indicate that the number of drivers/riders capable of controlling their vehicle in a safe manner is dismally pathetic, and you can guarantee that an unlimited open road would see an immediate multiplying of the accident and death rate. You've got your head in the clouds because YOU want to speed. Have you considered a track day?

not if you have a public health care system that is paid for out the Tax take ...( the real reason they want the road toll down )Stephen

Yup, how many would want to foot the ACC and Public Health bill?

I agree with above statement but:

With fewer clearer laws, well policed and with greater emphasis on dangerous driving offences with really appropriate penalties!

Random driver "fitness to drive" testing would keep us on our toes and up to date with road law.

More personal responsibility with accountability ..... that what gets "measured" gets done!

Random "fitness to drive" testing would be my personal greatest fear, if it were activated and enforced.

I feel I am a reasonably confident and competent driver/rider but could do with tweeking it up a bit all round if I am really honest with myself. (never do today what you can put off until tomorrow, attitude prevails)

I see some sub par driving and behaviour out on our roads at times and I think to myself, how do others see me on the road?

Robbie Burns little ditty: "Would that god the gift to give us, to see ourselves as others see us" springs to mind!

Perzackery! The available penalties are adequate, but we need to see some Judges with the gumption to start making the penalty fit the crime!

We all think we can drive/ride better than "everyone else" therefore we should be exempted from the laws, but that's what all the boy-racers and those who run from the cops and like that young feller on Traffic Patrol last night caught doing 207km/h in his SS Commodore, think. I have often said, "Show me an incompetent driver/rider who knows he is incompetent and I'll show you a pedestrian!"

How often in this forum have we had posts from all age groups about how they've had an accident or a near-accident through their own fault. Double the speeds and what carnage are we going to see? Sure, it's not the actual speed that kills, it's the fact that high speeds on public roads mean no margin for error and no "escape routes" - no time to react and avoid a hazardous situation.

I've already confessed to doubling + the open road speed limit at times and enjoying a challenging stretch of road, but the number of times I have found myself thinking, "If I'd been going 10km/h faster, I'd have been dog-meat!", means that the public road is NOT the place for high speeds except in very particular circumstances. Yet many on here seem to think they can safely multiply the speed limit in traffic and on roads where you cannot see what's around the next corner.

[scumdog]

I believe that "speeding" within the real maximum safe limit for the conditions / vehicle can make you a safer rider / driver if you are focused on what you are doing.

The open road speed limit should be OPEN

So it's up to YOU (the rider) to decide the safe limit/speed to ride as per everything mentioned in the first paragraph??

Shit, a lot of people can't decide if they want 'fries with that' let alone something as critical as what IS a safe speed for the conditions, hell even WITH a speed limit they seem to crash willy-nilly....