Anyone English see this?

**mashman** · 13th November 2010, 21:21

Originally Posted by 98tls

Very sad but expect the same here in the not to distant future.One has to wonder if those that gave all would have ever left home if they could have seen how things would turn out.

So i've seen, it's just not Islam here. One of our reasons for coming out here was so that the kids could be a little safer. Naive maybe, bet hey, we'll see what happens

**98tls** · 13th November 2010, 21:22

Personally i look forward to when Tongans jump on the fanatical bandwagon

Most of them have no idea how to turn a fridge on so fucking about with explosives should prove interesting.

**98tls** · 13th November 2010, 21:33

Originally Posted by mashman

So i've seen, it's just not Islam here. One of our reasons for coming out here was so that the kids could be a little safer. Naive maybe, bet hey, we'll see what happens

Fella this isnt called "little England " without reason,disgruntled so called natives combined with flotsam from surrounding Islands with no intention of just getting on with life as we know it are already filling up both our prisons and newspapers daily,just like up there theres to many do gooders defending there so called rights long before they have earned any.

**Fatt Max** · 14th November 2010, 16:21

That protest is just plain and simple bullshit and it should NOT be allowed. Fuck, I hate to see the UK going down like this.

You cant even fly a george cross on your house without some fucking PC ridden council inspector accusing you of racism and fining you if you dont remove it. Imagine if that happened in NZ...

The UK panders to these people because they are so fucking afraid of consequence.

At the same tim, the far right are a bunch of arseholes as well, hooligans, plain and simple.

Fuck, it's terrible that people are allowed to do this kind of stuff, free speech or not....and these bastards are UK born as well

Has me upset this has, bastards..

**Kickaha** · 14th November 2010, 16:23

Originally Posted by Fatt Max

That protest is just plain and simple bullshit and it should NOT be allowed.

If you don't allow their protest then you can not allow any protest

**Swoop** · 14th November 2010, 16:29

Originally Posted by rapid van cleef

kenny everitt said it in the 80's round em up, put em in a field, and bomb the bastards!

He said "Round up your commies, pinko's and your fags..."

Then his epaulets opened to fire small howitzers. Brilliant comedy!

**Fatt Max** · 14th November 2010, 16:32

Originally Posted by Kickaha

If you don't allow their protest then you can not allow any protest

Bollocks,

Fuck them

**pritch** · 14th November 2010, 16:47

Originally Posted by Mom

I think it is called freedom of speech, one of the things that we hold dear in our society. Best thing to do with that sort of protest is to ignore it completely, dont give it any publicity. The more attention it gets the more they will do it.

For the record I am totally apalled by this, but defend the rights of the protestors to say their piece. Ignore it.

Normally I would agree but these people don't regard themselves as British and have no respect for rights such as freedom of speech. They have signs about "our dead" and "our affairs". Their British nationality should be withdrawn and they should be shipped back to the muslim nation of their choice.
If they won't make a choice, Bangladesh would do just fine.

**Dave Lobster** · 14th November 2010, 17:01

Originally Posted by Kickaha

If you don't allow their protest then you can not allow any protest

Why? Of course you can. Any protest that is tantamount to treason, open the machine guns on them.

Originally Posted by pritch

If they won't make a choice, Bangladesh would do just fine.

The desert is closer, and you don't even need to land a plane there to drop them off. Their false god will save them, if they're lucky.

**Kickaha** · 14th November 2010, 17:52

Originally Posted by Fatt Max

Bollocks,

Fuck them

So you'd be happy for the Govt to say the same next time Motorcyclists want to do an ACC protest then?

Originally Posted by Dave Lobster

Why? Of course you can. Any protest that is tantamount to treason, open the machine guns on them.

Tantamount to treason?

you should do stand up comedy

**Oscar** · 14th November 2010, 18:04

Originally Posted by pzkpfw

In general, yes, this is bad. No question. Civilian deaths are awful. I repeat, I agree they are bad.

But there are some real differences.

When a bunch a hijackers fly planes into big buildings they are specifically aiming to kill civilians. It's their direct aim, regardles of their wider motives. And these are civilians that either can only vaguely be linked to the target of these hiajckers; or the target of these hijackers really is just "the people".

On the other hand, the deaths of civilians in Iraq come from a different kind of action.

The U.S. (in general*1) does not aim to simply kill civilians. For example, they did not use B52's to carpet bomb downtown Baghdad, World War II style; they used precision bombing*2. (I recall an event (first gulf war) where a precision bomb was sent down an air vent and blew up a bunker - killing a whole lot of Women and Children. That was certainly a cynical ploy by the Iraqi's; those civilians would have been safer at home - houses in general were not the American target; bunkers were (because that's where the leaders were expected to be - not random civilians).

The civilian deaths that have continued in Iraq are also not the sole "blame" of the U.S. (and Western allies). It's not like the U.S.(*1) just goes out and bombs a house for no particular reason. The thing is, they are fighting an enemy that hides within the civilian population. Why ask 'where are the ravers about "Radical Westeners" or "Crazy Christians"?' - why not ask 'where are the ravers about "insurgents" or "non-Iraqi foreign anti-American fighters"?'

Also, plenty of the civilian deaths are not caused by the U.S. as such, but by the general carnage dealt by the people there. They bomb police recruits. They bomb markets. They bomb muslims of the "wrong kind". They bomb each other.

The U.S. armed forces have actually operated under some pretty strict guidelines ("rules of engagement"). Even Vietnam was affected. The "linebacker" operations served their purpose by making the North go to the negotiation table, but the U.S. never really unleashed World War II style "total war" on the North Vietnamese. World opinion would not stand for it. Today, military units often need to go through a few steps of approval gathering before they can start the shooting.

They do not aim to kill civilians, and they should not shoulder the full burden.

Then, to simply say "go home, then" is a simplistic answer. The place is a mess, and abandoning it won't help.

(
*1 you'll note that as some soldiers are found to have "done bad" they have been exposed and put on trial. Sure, not all, but it's something. The "free press" eventually exposes the "bad stuff" and things "happen".

*2 I think this is one of the lessons they need to learn. The Iraqi army was smashed in weeks. So what was the point of bombing all the water treatment plants and power stations? The U.S. then had to spend all that time and money fixing those things when they took over the country. If their strikes had been aimed more at direct military targets and less on general infrastructure, they'd still have "won" the military battle but had less trouble making the civilians happy afterwards. (Even in WWII, the Germans were able to increase production of certain things even while the bombing of cities (which, again, didn't happen this way in Iraq) increased. At the end, fields of aircraft were found - they had the planes, but no fuel or trained pilots. This should have been a lesson.)
)

You can waffle about intent all you like, but as far as I'm concerned a dead child is a dead child.
The Americans use of drones makes verification of casualties problematic, but there is no doubt that the US is prepared to kill innocents to get the terrorists. That, by definition, is a terrorist act.

**Fatt Max** · 14th November 2010, 18:05

Originally Posted by Kickaha

So you'd be happy for the Govt to say the same next time Motorcyclists want to do an ACC protest then?

No. of course I wouldnt, but I have double standards and all the other things you will accuse me of having because you may or may not like to do that sort of thing, I couldnt give a flying fuck what you think of my opinion on this anyway.

I simply cannot get my head around why these bastards are permitted to do this sort of thing on the streets of England when other people are not allowed to even allowed to fly a George Cross in their own home. Imagine if this happened on ANZAC day in this great country.

This has got fuck all to do with bikes, motorcycles, ACC or anything elee....I think the Taleban have Hummers anyway, the yanks gave them those back in the 80's....

**Kickaha** · 14th November 2010, 18:37

Originally Posted by Fatt Max

when other people are not allowed to even allowed to fly a George Cross in their own home

Really? yet Government buildings can if they have more than one flagpole

**PrincessBandit** · 14th November 2010, 18:45

The kicker to any campaign (good or bad) is to "hit people where it has maximum effect". Unfortunately while ignoring them would be the best treatment - they've chosen a forum and focal point which simply can't be ignored by the people.

As for the one with the placard about "dead islam soldiers are in paradise, yours are rotting in hell" (or very similar) - gee, I wonder why he kept his face hidden? No such thing as manning up and letting people see you for who and what you are eh.

Guess only time will tell who ends up rotting or burning in hell and who wont.