Aging motorcyclists - Close Up tonight 30/11/10

[phiretrojan]

Alan Kirk is a complete prat. He says "Some of the Harley range will be able to be ridden" WTF? Does Harley make a bike, available here, of 660cc or less? I don't think so.

Yea, i was like WTF, and when he quoted "cause 125cc can hit up to 200k' umm doesn't all the 250cc and high do those speeds as well?

if i got a new bike it would be a pick from Yamaha FZ6R, Kawasaki ER-6n,L ( Ducati Monster 600 <-- ooo baby dual exhaust two bros!) ..........(still on learners, by time i get my full this use LAMS system out why worry about it)

[MSTRS:Me]

Can't be naffed checking - but is it not a HP to weight ratio that decides if a bike is suitable?

Maybe a 883 Sporty fits in the range of suitable bikes??

Or have I got it wrong again???

883 prolly does, but the cut off is 660cc

Yea, i was like WTF, and when he quoted "cause 125cc can hit up to 200k' umm doesn't all the 250cc and high do those speeds as well?

if i got a new bike it would be a pick from Yamaha FZ6R Kawasaki ER-6nL Ducati Monster 600 <-- ooo baby dual exhaust two bros! ..........(still on learners, by time i get my full this use LAMS system out why worry about it)

He referred to 150cc 2 strokes. I doubt that any RG or KR150 can top 180kph.

[MarkH]

I just checked that close up article online (I never watch broadcast TV) and all I could think was "what a load of shit!". Biased reporting and lazy policing - that's pretty fuckin' sad.

Last year 43 motorcyclists died and this year 45 so far, so the police start pinging speeders on a straight piece of road. So, was that how the 88 motorcyclists died then? Were they killed by exceeding 110kph in a 100 zone on a straight road? Is that why the police were picking on the straight road speeder - because that is how the 88 motorcyclists killed in '09 & '10 on the road died? And pulling them over and ticketing them - that is how we will lower the road toll?

The police were there doing what they were doing and their only goal was to reduce the carnage on our roads? REALLY? The cop said that and I just shook my head in disbelief! It must be a case of cognitive dissonance if that deluded copper really thought that he was doing ANYTHING to reduce the deaths of motorcyclists on NZ roads!

It would be good if something were done to reduce accidents, but nothing in that Close Up report showed me that the police were doing anything more than collecting revenue and pissing off motorcyclists. 119kph on a straight road isn't dangerous and I'm willing to bet that wasn't the cause of any deaths. I've exceeded that speed and I didn't die. How about mandatory attendance of a 1-day riding course as a penalty for 119kph instead of the fine & demerits? No? I guess improving the riding ability is less important than collecting a fine in the war against the road toll. The police seem to work REALLY hard to avoid doing anything constructive for the public they serve.

[MSTRS:Me]

What these cops say (and do), is what they superiors tell them. It is 'official policy' that speed kills and must be stamped out (and let's get some coin in while we do it).
The stupid thing is that if the braids decided (from the stats) that white cars were over-represented in accident/deaths, and told the troops to deal with it, then the chorus would change...

[shrub]

What these cops say (and do), is what they superiors tell them. It is 'official policy' that speed kills and must be stamped out (and let's get some coin in while we do it).
The stupid thing is that if the braids decided (from the stats) that white cars were over-represented in accident/deaths, and told the troops to deal with it, then the chorus would change...

I was at a BBQ with a cop last night, and he told me that while the management deny quotas the cops on the beat are expected to have one 'contact' every hour, and that will normally be issuing a ticket. Speeding is the easiest ticket to write and least likely to be contested and result in extra work for the cop, so that's what they focus on.

[ynot slow]

My take on road safety if the polies care is not ticketing every road user(from truckies to bikers)for speeding,but maybe a gently does it view.

Say you get caught at 115km or so on a straight(they're dangerous them straight roads eh)road,instead of a ticket,maybe just maybe the speeder would take heed and slow if the officer said "I'll give you a warning to slow down,but if you get caught today afterwards you'll be ticketed" or similar,for me it would work,knowing the 20 points is not going on license and fine/invoice.

And what really pisses me off is when you're told "you have 28 days to pat",ffs who does that,I wait till last minute after getting computer ticket,usually 56 days or so(can save for it lol).

[MarkH]

Here's something interesting:

Watching Emergency Bikers 104:
A biker had crashed on a corner (brand new K1300 he was test riding), but wasn't hurt. He got charged with careless driving but instead of a penalty he gets a chance to do a bike safe course.

From the thread I started here: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ergency-Bikers

So it seems in the UK that the police do have an alternative to punishing motorists, why am I too cynical to think that the police would ever do the same thing here? I am not talking about the front line officers, of course - they only do their job, they don't set the policies.

The police here keep talking about doing what they can to lower the road toll and reduce accidents, but nothing they do is very effective at achieving that goal. Every day I see drivers failing to understand simple road rules and showing a lack of courtesy & consideration for fellow motorists and I have yet to see any evidence that the NZ police do ANYTHING to change that.

[MSTRS:Me]

To be fair, a cop has to actually witness such behaviour. And, miracle of miracles, when a (marked) cop is about, drivers suddenly seem to know the rules...

On the other hand, I've seen plenty of bullshit at roundabouts, with a cop present, and no reaction from said cop. Mind you, they are not always exemplary drivers themselves - cutting across lanes, not indicating.

[Ocean1]

To be fair...

Um.


Why?

[scumdog]

To be fair, a cop has to actually witness such behaviour. And, miracle of miracles, when a (marked) cop is about, drivers suddenly seem to know the rules...
.

BINGO!

Hence why in my opinion MORE muftis targetting idiot drivers sjould be out there - it might get a few who 'drive to the conditions' (i.e. onlydrive as they should when a cop car is nearby)

[shrub]

in the same way many prefer smaller government (usually the ones who like to have more laws passed).

I am of the opinion that the average car driver and motorcycle rider has an inherant desire NOT to have a crash because crashing almost always costs a shitload of money - money that could be far better spent on beer - and frequently results in significant degrees of pain and potentially a lifetime in a wheelchair, and every now and again results in becoming dead. I don't know anyone that would be happy about any of the above scenarios, and would go as far as to say everyone I know would go to some trouble to avoid them.

I think the answer comes down to education. If pepple knew just how dangerous their behaviour was, and what the odds of them experiencing bad stuff were, they would avoid them in the same way I don't know anyone that would inject heroine or smoke P.

There will always be a small percentage of people who choose to do really stupid shit like drive drunk, cut blind corners or smoke P, and they will do it regardless of the penalties because they either don't care or don't think they'll get caught/suffer the consequences. Nothing will stop them, so why waste massive resources on the people who are quite keen to stay alive when it would be easier to educate them.

The cynic in me says TPTB know this, but education costs money when enforcement earns money.

[MSTRS:Me]

BINGO!

Hence why in my opinion MORE muftis targetting idiot drivers sjould be out there - it might get a few who 'drive to the conditions' (i.e. onlydrive as they should when a cop car is nearby)

Hey! Settle down. That would mean us 'honest traffic criminals' would get caught more...Not what's wanted at all.

The cynic in me says TPTB know this, but education costs money when enforcement earns money.

Ya think....?

[Dare]

On the other hand, I've seen plenty of bullshit at roundabouts, with a cop present, and no reaction from said cop. Mind you, they are not always exemplary drivers themselves - cutting across lanes, not indicating.

I watched in disbelief as a cop pulled up to an old honda accord and tailgated from around 3m away at 80kmh.. I mean it was in a 100k zone but still.

So it seems in the UK that the police do have an alternative to punishing motorists, why am I too cynical to think that the police would ever do the same thing here?

Funnily enough in the UK and Europe there has been a riding culture that hasn't been sidelined by policy makers. Personally I think the knee-jerk reaction to media demonizing is somewhat reduced in countries where the politicians/diplomats aren't more concerned with getting the right people at their dinner parties (and other big fish/small pond maneuvering) than what policies they are going to enforce in the morning. That said the standard of driving (outside Italy at least) is generally higher than it is here.

Say you get caught at 115km or so on a straight(they're dangerous them straight roads eh)road,instead of a ticket,maybe just maybe the speeder would take heed and slow if the officer said "I'll give you a warning to slow down,but if you get caught today afterwards you'll be ticketed" or similar,for me it would work,knowing the 20 points is not going on license and fine/invoice.

I've had far more admonishments than tickets, contrary to popular belief if you don't just get angry more often than not the police actually use the pink goo between their ears. I even got told "your rego is out by 3 days but if you run down to the post shop and come back to see me I'll make sure this ticket never get's into the system" and he kept his word. Sure there's the odd wanker but as the show proved they have to deal with far more abusive people in their job than we ever have to deal with in uniform.

I was at a BBQ with a cop last night, and he told me that while the management deny quotas the cops on the beat are expected to have one 'contact' every hour, and that will normally be issuing a ticket. Speeding is the easiest ticket to write and least likely to be contested and result in extra work for the cop, so that's what they focus on.

When you are a frontline cop with a hammer everything begins to look like a nail. Maybe if 'management' could be persuaded that mandatory safety courses with a cut going to the police were more lucrative/effective than a piece of paper and a halfhearted admonishment (yes I know how fast I was going, sir) things would be different.

Given all the hassle with Wikileaks lately I wonder what would happen if all that internal paperwork (ACC stats, management memos, etc) were to become accidentally public..

It would be nice if the people up high stopped trying to run public services like private companies, as if there aren't a million different micro taxes digging into our pockets anyway. Stop it with the hyper-capitalism this isn't the goddamn USA (although at least they aren't quite so one track with the "it's for your own safety" argument).

[Dare]

Just had an odd thought. Imagine if bikes in the show room were plastered with stickers of people mangled up in crashes much like ciggies get sold with photos of mouth cancer.

I wonder if it would change anything.

[Katman]

There will always be a small percentage of people who choose to do really stupid shit like drive drunk, cut blind corners or smoke P, and they will do it regardless of the penalties because they either don't care or don't think they'll get caught/suffer the consequences. Nothing will stop them, so why waste massive resources on the people who are quite keen to stay alive when it would be easier to educate them.

I think we seriously need to stop looking at all dead motorcyclists as some sort of fallen heroes.

The sooner we adopt the belief that if you have an accident while riding like a cock, you should be called a cock. If you die from your accident while riding like a cock, and even worse, if you take someone elses life while riding like a cock, you should expect to be remembered as a cock.

It may seem a bizarre notion but I seriously believe there are motorcyclists out there who think that regardless of the manner of their passing they will at least have a glowing epitaph on Kiwibiker.