Buy from NZ? I tried but come on...

[R-Soul]

Yup, my bad, I misread what you meant. Yes I know the chances of it being effective are low, but what other choices do the retailers have available? The friend who I ordered the seat cowl for has stated to me, and in this thread as well, that he will not buy another new Honda from NZ. He paid roughly $24k for that bike, and he'll buy another new bike probably within a couple years. But it won't be a Honda. Well not from NZ anyway.

So no I don't have the magic silver bullet to answer the issue, all I could hope to see happen is that the ledger gets balanced better so that the retailers get better support from their suppliers (and to be honest, I'm mostly referring to OEM parts) so that they can get better support from their customers.

If the situation doesn't change, no dramas for me currently, I'll keep buying from overseas as many others do. But it'll be dramas for those that work in the industry. And I don't want to see these shops close down, I don't want to see these people out of jobs. But I'm not paying 3x the price to ensure that. I live in NZ too, and I get paid NZ wages. I can't afford to spend that much.

Another option is to negotiate contingency stockholding for wholesalers.
When they sell it, the wholesalers/importers get the money for it.

Another option is to negotiate REALLY low prices from international wholesalers online, same as the retailers are doing.

Another option is to change their policy to no stock holding (well, not much - enough to try only), and order only once ordered by customers. I dont see too many customers havinga problem with this, as long as their prices make up for the wait.

[R-Soul]

So does anyone on here actually work for an importer? Or is an importer?

I do, not in the motorcycle industry but in another industry.
There are many costs the end user doesn't see.
For instance,
minimum freight charges (might be one cubic metre or it might be 250kgs)
portage
port storage
insurance
taxes
duties
transport cost between wharf and shipping agent
transport cost from shipping agent to us
there is even a charge per line on invoice!!
and on and on

Many suppliers don't let you purchase one off items, or if they do they put a minimum charge on that. eg it might be $2,500 USD + freight + plus all your govenment taxes and import charges. We have one supplier that our minimum order is a 20ft container.

As an importer we have to project orders out 3 - 6 months in advance. This stock also needs to be paid for before it ships. We are crystal ball gazing. If we make a mistake we have dead stock. If we make a mistake we may not be able to supply a certain product for a long time.

We have had to reduce staff as times are really tough.

We carry the warranty, in most cases our suppliers charge us for "warranty" parts and we pay for labour for repairing goods. The consumer wants longer warranties and to pay less for the product.

We need a certain margin to even survive let alone make a profit and it is well above the 10% that keeps getting thrown around.

As has been said, we have less buying power, smaller numbers and a greater distance to move goods. We try as hard as we can to match US and AUS pricing, but we can't always do it. We are not creaming it.

I agree that the current retail model probably needs looking at. But any answers that mean lower prices for the consumer mean a loss of jobs in most industries as the supply chains get cut. There may not be room for importers/retailers in the supply chain, but the loss of one or the other while making the price lower for the consumer MAY make the consumer worse off in the long run.

All those costs you mentioned are done in bulk, and over many goods should mean that they are cheaper individually. All of those costs need to be replicated when ordering online, but at MUCH higher costs because they are now higher cost courier deliveries /air freight etc.

And they STILL come out 50% less. FAIL!

[R-Soul]

We saw an example of supply chain mathematics earlier in the thread. You need to turn over at least 3 grand an hour just to pay 5 people minimum wage before you even consider your other overheads.

So of course with the low volumes in NZ you need to set your prices accordingly.

If they are paying staff $600 an hour each, then I am not surprised businesses are going under...

At five staff at minimum wage (lets say $15 an hour), you would need to make $75 an hour. If you make 20% profit margin (IMHO this is reasonable), then you need to sell $375 an hour of stuff to cover their costs, before overheads.

I am not sure what size operation requires 5 staff at the same time? This is presumably not a small store -or else I think it is heavily overstaffed.

[R-Soul]

LOL. You quoted me asking for evidence and reply with "I don't ... believe..."

I gave your evidence with my first statement.

[steve_t]

I gave your evidence with my first statement.

Suggesting there's a monopoly/duopoly responsible for our high prices doesn't provide evidence that either or both the wholesaler or retailer is applying a large markup. You suggested that you don't believe that the retailers are as innocent as they pretend to be because they protest too much. You don't think they're protesting because they're struggling? Survival of the fittest right? Won't that end up with less competition and increase prices in the long run?

[scracha]

All those costs you mentioned are done in bulk, and over many goods should mean that they are cheaper individually. All of those costs need to be replicated when ordering online, but at MUCH higher costs because they are now higher cost courier deliveries /air freight etc.

And they STILL come out 50% less. FAIL!

I can see both sides of the argument. Yeah, I import (non bike) stuff. Often the official distributer prices are bonkers (todays item, $400 trade, RRP $600 but everyone sells them at $475) so you end up buying them from the states/uk for $200. Add in GST, import duty etc and its still well under $250.

One thing that really pisses me off - The backup from abroad just as good (often better) then the official distributer.

Re bike shops. If I, Joe Public can spend 10 minutes to research the correct part and save a fuckload of money, then why the hell can't the bike shop? Dealer should be able to say "I can get it tomorrow for $1000 from NZ or $600 if you're prepared to wait 4 days". Shit, they've probably got far better markup on the unofficial imported part anyway?

A little bit better product knowledge and effort and the bike shops could be quids in. Probably in the too hard basket for many bike shops and customers are voting with their feet. Obviously the bike shops that are making the effort are quids in.

[scott411]

It still doesn't explain why the local store couldn't order gear from the online store as a value added service to the customer and eliminate all of those charges, that at the end of the day do nobody any good.

because you need to put a margin on everything to pay for the stock holding plus all overheads,

i do actually do this from time to time when i can not get parts from the normal supply chanels, it normally costs me a little more but i do it to keep customers happy,

but this argument has been had before and no one won last time either

[R1GEEZA]

i think just from the numbers reply on this thread shows how rediculas prices here are.... the only reason i go to a bike shop pretty much is to try on gear for size!!!! i bought an alpinestars rc-1 2piece from ebay for less than half price here also found a seller offering free shipping. quids in!!!! plus the sheer choices you have are 100x!!! i think its a shame shop owners are struggling but at the end off the day i think most newzealanders are? i know i dont have much spare cash to throw around.
ebay ebay ebay ebay ebay ebay

[scott411]

i think just from the numbers reply on this thread shows how rediculas prices here are.... the only reason i go to a bike shop pretty much is to try on gear for size!!!! i bought an alpinestars rc-1 2piece from ebay for less than half price here also found a seller offering free shipping. quids in!!!! plus the sheer choices you have are 100x!!! i think its a shame shop owners are struggling but at the end off the day i think most newzealanders are? i know i dont have much spare cash to throw around.
ebay ebay ebay ebay ebay ebay

i understand why people buy overseas and i tend to do for some stuff as well in other interest's i have, if i can not get what i want here, or it is 50% cheaper to land it here from oversea's i will do it,

but going in to try gear on, then buying oversea's is pretty low in my opinion, but i have had worse, someone coming in wanting me to swap for free some gear that he got in and was the wrong size

[Robert Taylor]

i understand why people buy overseas and i tend to do for some stuff as well in other interest's i have, if i can not get what i want here, or it is 50% cheaper to land it here from oversea's i will do it,

but going in to try gear on, then buying oversea's is pretty low in my opinion, but i have had worse, someone coming in wanting me to swap for free some gear that he got in and was the wrong size

I second that, its VERY low to make a convenience of a local retailer for sizing when you know only too damn well youre not going to buy off them

[Katman]

Do you lot spend as much time whinging about the mark-up that supermarkets make on your groceries?

[Robert Taylor]

Another option is to negotiate contingency stockholding for wholesalers.
When they sell it, the wholesalers/importers get the money for it.

Another option is to negotiate REALLY low prices from international wholesalers online, same as the retailers are doing.

Another option is to change their policy to no stock holding (well, not much - enough to try only), and order only once ordered by customers. I dont see too many customers havinga problem with this, as long as their prices make up for the wait.

Wholesalers and importers do not have a bottomless money pit to have lots of dealers with consignment stock, cash flow problems are as similiar as what dealers have, if not moreso.

What you also have to realise is that manufacturers do not have endless production capacity and stock has to often be pre-ordered months in advance. Sometimes or more than sometimes it is out of phase with the main selling seasons in the Northern hemisphere and it doesnt suit us so well.

The issues are more complex than people realise and as we are so tiny and insignificant we havent got clout, quite the opposite.

How the friggin hell you can negotiate REALLY LOW PRICES especially when you are in world terms buying bugger all is beyond me and all the other distributors. Thats fantasy land.

[onearmedbandit]

Do you lot spend as much time whinging about the mark-up that supermarkets make on your groceries?

If I belonged to a grocery forum, then yeah I probably would. Notice how every time there is a fuel cost increase, the grocery stores put their prices up due to increased transportation costs (that's justifiable) but when fuel prices decrease I noticed food costs hardly changed.

Anyway, back to the topic. Remember this thread isn't really about the small importer, or hard to obtain products. This is about the national importer of one of the 'big four' (I'm not singling them out on purpose however) charging an obscenely outrageous price for a piece of painted plastic. Then to add insult to injury, that the same piece can be bought from a retail outfit off-shore, shipped, taxed, etc and be under half price. Honda are a huge multi-national organisation, with arms in every country practically, with a 'no-discount policy' worldwide on their new cars. Yet their image is tarnished in this country due to pricing.

And I understand that using retailers solely for the intention of 'sizing' before buying off-line is low, but I was a car salesman for 10yrs (so I should know 'low') and for every car I sold I would have had 3-4 test drives that ended in no sale. A lot of these buyers would have already made up their mind to buy their neighbours Mondeo, or the one up the road with lower km's, but they'll test drive another 'just to make sure'. Did that bother me? Hell no, I'd always do my job and act professionally. Because what happens if the sale they are banking on falls over? What then? They are going to go back to the place where they drove another model, and got good service. And that's a salesmans job, to find out about the customer. Convert them into a sale right now if you can, but don't burn them, because if they don't buy today they might tomorrow, or they might recommend you to a friend etc.

So yeah I understand it must be annoying for sales staff when that happens, but at least the punter has walked through the door. Can't sell him those leathers? Ask why not? Doesn't want to tell you? Be cheeky, ask if he's seen a better deal. Pry it out of him/her that they are looking on the 'net, and if they finally admit they are confirm you can't compete on price with them, but look for the opportunity to build a relationship with them. Sell them some leather cleaner discounted, or a cool suit for wearing under leathers. You've made a sale, and more importantly you've made an impression on the customer.

[onearmedbandit]

How the friggin hell you can negotiate REALLY LOW PRICES especially when you are in world terms buying bugger all is beyond me and all the other distributors. Thats fantasy land.

I understand what you are saying Robert, makes perfect sense. Just make sure the manufacturers understand why they lose market representation in New Zealand as the retailers close down.

All I'm saying is that it appears that the retailers and wholesalers/importers are suffering in NZ. However, the customers are not, as they are buying off-shore, in greater numbers everyday it would appear. Long term effect of that I'm assuming will be job losses, then ultimately closures. As more retailes close more buyers turn to online shopping, further knocking the stuffing out of the surviving retailers. Eventually the last retailer closes up shop, the importer no longer has an outlet, so they close up shop. And the manufacturer no longer has an official presence in the market. Maybe our market is that small that that outcome wouldn't concern them too much. Yes I know I'm going to extremes, but it would of happened before in this country I'm certain.

[MarkH]

i understand why people buy overseas and i tend to do for some stuff as well in other interest's i have, if i can not get what i want here, or it is 50% cheaper to land it here from oversea's i will do it,

but going in to try gear on, then buying oversea's is pretty low in my opinion, but i have had worse, someone coming in wanting me to swap for free some gear that he got in and was the wrong size

Wow, that's fukn cheeky! I have visited local stores to try on jackets, pants, gloves, boots & helmets - in each case I bought locally.

I visit local shops to enquire about price/availability for over 90% of my purchasing - they get the opportunity to make the sale, it's just sometimes they don't succeed (not my fault & not my problem). I wanted a Givi screen and was impressed by the local price, it was actually cheaper than what I could get one from the US for - it was only the 2 1/2 months delay in availability that lost them the sale. My workshop manual would have cost close enough to the overseas price for me to buy here instead of ordering overseas, but the bike shop couldn't get it for me - no longer available so I got it in from repairmanuals.com. I went to my local shop to buy a drive belt, but the local importer was out of stock, never mind - I got one from overseas cheaper and in less than a week. I'm happy to let the locals have my money - but they need to be able to supply the products in a reasonable time and at a reasonable price. If they can't do it then I don't care why not - it's not my problem, I'll get what I want regardless of whether I buy local or import from overseas.

Do you lot spend as much time whinging about the mark-up that supermarkets make on your groceries?

I think that it is pretty well known that supermarkets operate on high volume/low margins, so no need to whine about their margins. But someone is making too much on some items (like bottled water). I think bike shops would love to have the turnover that the supermarkets have, it would make it easy to make a good profit.