Safer roads and cars

[Indiana_Jones]

me too! The best thing about having a car with no power steering. dodgy manual gearbox, hard suspension...

It's the only way to drive lol

-Indy

[StoneY]

During my time on the MSL Steering Group we had infornmation shared from Vic roads that indicates the AA are bang on the nail here

Vic's biggest single influence on lowering road carnage for Motorcycluists was gained by carefully re-engineering the worst black spots in regards bike crashes, removing tree's at roadside near bends, placing semi mountable curbs on the worst bends etc

For once, AA have gotten it right and this is a good initiative IMO

I have copies of some booklets that Vic created - one for roading contractors one for roading engineers detailing how to make roads more Motorcycle friendly, down to sweeping up gravel post curbing work etc...
Its a good read, happy to fax copies to anyone interested just pm me

[vifferman]

There are some theories (maybe studies too) showing that as the safety of a situation increases, so do the risks people take.

I'd imagine studies about this exist. It's well known that the tendency to make roads straighter and 'safer' sometimes makes them more dangerous, as the lower perceived risk makes people less attentive. I can't verify this with names, stats, etc., but I remember a program on the Idiotbox that looked at this. In particular, there was a road in the US where they'd removed a 'killer corner' and the accident rate went up.
Here's an example closer to home: skifield access roads. If ay roads could be labeled "killer" roads based on the potential danger, these could. But how many accidents/deaths do they have? Relatively few, as the slippery road surface, lack of armco barriers, the steep drop off the sides, lack of markings, etc etc mean that people generally take a lot more care when negotiating them.

I must be getting old (and arguably, senile): I keep looking at '50s and '60s cars and '70s bikes with a lustful eye. Most of these were pretty crappy compared to today's models, but had more character and were often more satisfying to drive/ride. The 1957 Morris Minor I used to own when I was a student was certainly cheaper to run and more reliable than the '90s model cars my two eldest sons own.

[scumdog]

There are some theories (maybe studies too) showing that as the safety of a situation increases, so do the risks people take.

Sort of why some people tend to speed up when they get onto the passing lanes.

The road is wider - ergo they feel safer at a higher speed

[Marmoot]

As far as cars go, the latest technology can not substitute for dumb practices. Reality shows that new cars get driven into accidents as easily as older cars.

Take a look at it this way: the badly maintained 1983 Fords and Mazdas with battered bodies and suspension being driven at 120kph really make me shudders. And that's not a rare occassion either. In any given day you would be seeing a number of them on our roads.

With 2001 and 2010 there may not be that much difference. But with a badly maintained 1980s vs. 2010, there is surely something different.

[Banditbandit]

During my time on the MSL Steering Group we had infornmation shared from Vic roads that indicates the AA are bang on the nail here

Vic's biggest single influence on lowering road carnage for Motorcycluists was gained by carefully re-engineering the worst black spots in regards bike crashes, removing tree's at roadside near bends, placing semi mountable curbs on the worst bends etc

That would tend to suggest that changing the roads do not make them less of an accident area - but rather changes reduce the risk of serious injury or death from accidents ...

I like the roads the way they are - making them "safer" generally means straighter - and on a bike that's no fun ...

[bogan]

With 2001 and 2010 there may not be that much difference. But with a badly maintained 1980s vs. 2010, there is surely something different.

Like the dude who on motorway patrol who took his springs out cos they were cut? (the problem being not that the cutties were removed, but that nothing else went in!). In such situations the age of the car is irrelevant, the older ones are cheaper, so more popular with this type of person.

[MSTRS:Me]

I have copies of some booklets that Vic created - one for roading contractors one for roading engineers detaiuling how to make roads more Motorcycle friendly, down to sweeing up gravel post curbing work etc...

Can you send them to Higgins and Napier City Council...both of those fuckers believe that unmarked loose gravel is not a problem.

[awa355]

Take a look at it this way: the badly maintained 1983 Fords and Mazdas with battered bodies and suspension being driven at 120kph really make me shudders. And that's not a rare occassion either. In any given day you would be seeing a number of them on our roads.

With 2001 and 2010 there may not be that much difference. But with a badly maintained 1980s vs. 2010, there is surely something different.

No older car is ever going to be safer than a newer one.

I certainly dont consider the cars from the 60's/70's/80's safe to drive compared to todays cars but, I'd love an old Humber Super Snipe as an interest. Then I wouldn't have to give a shit about anybody else on the road, turn the wireless up, keep going and ignore the carnage in the rear view mirror.

I was told years ago by an old motorcyclist, that the most dangerous piece of any road is that bit right under your front wheel. Not anywhere else on your journey. he said there is where any accident is going to happen.

[PrincessBandit]

me too! The best thing about having a car with no power steering. dodgy manual gearbox, hard suspension, and no mod cons is that teenage children can't learn to drive in it and yes I took that into consideration when buying it.

The downside is that as it is being done it up, it looks like a shitter and for some reason Mr Hellokitty gets pulled over in it I don't....

But I can drive pretty much anything, after driving my car.

I agree completely! Had to laugh - some time ago I was loaned a Ford courier (i think) while having my tyres changed on the wee car; my teenage daughter took one look at the column shift and said "mum, are you sure you know how to drive this?" Ah, brought back fond memories of the Mk 2 cortina.

Safety features are great but I agree that "ease of use and improved protection" tends to make for less adaptable and reduced-skill users.
p.s. when I traded the old Bluebird in the chap at the dealership said "your power steering is pretty bad" to which I replied "that's because it doesn't have power steering..."

[wynw]

Can you send them to Higgins and Napier City Council...both of those fuckers believe that unmarked loose gravel is not a problem.

Add Whangarei and Far North Distict Councils to that list, I'm sure they believe its not a real road unless its got potholes and pea metal all over it.

[Daffyd]

Can you send them to Higgins and Napier City Council...both of those fuckers believe that unmarked loose gravel is not a problem.

I rang the roading manager for the Clutha District Council a week or so before the KB SI rally expressing my concern about the loose gravel on one particular corner close to the venue and he offered to send a sweeper out a couple of days before the rally.

To my surprise, not only was that corner cleaned up, but the road at least 10km each way was not only swept, but all the white lines were redone.

He also undertook to, over time, re-engineer the corner in question to avoid gravel being thrown up.

[p.dath]

According to the AA, we need better roads and more modern cars to drive, then the road toll will drop.

It is likely to drop because better roads and more modern cars are both more forgiving of human error.

Neither has anything to do with making drivers better.

[MSTRS:Me]

I rang the roading manager for the Clutha District Council a week or so before the KB SI rally expressing my concern about the loose gravel on one particular corner close to the venue and he offered to send a sweeper out a couple of days before the rally.

To my surprise, not only was that corner cleaned up, but the road at least 10km each way was not only swept, but all the white lines were redone.

He also undertook to, over time, re-engineer the corner in question to avoid gravel being thrown up.

3 times I have contacted NCC to get loose gravel cleaned up. Higgins carried out contract sealing works, then a week later removed the warning signs, leaving loose shit all over. 3x the oh-so-helpful voice at NCC roading dept has thanked me and promised to send a sweeper...still waiting.
YT was actively lied to by the apparent chief roading engineer re the same shit on a major intersection leading the the high school she works at. She was concerned about all the scooterist students coming to grief.

[Katman]

my teenage daughter took one look at the column shift and said "mum, are you sure you know how to drive this?" Ah, brought back fond memories of the Mk 2 cortina.

I would like to call, as Witness A, one driveway gate.