Crashed!

[SS90]

Hi.

Writing this will hopefully be a bit of a warning to other newbie's, and help me think it over.

Last Sunday I rode from Blenheim over to Nelson, actually about 30min past Nelson. It was the longest ride I have done, having only just got my resticted, and only gone about 100km in one day with lots of stops. I planned to have a couple of breaks, ( have driven it many times) but in the end was late leaving, so only stopped once for about a minute to stretch. The CBR250 went well. and on arriving in Nelson I was still feeling fine pushed on.

I was fine untill I was about 500m from my destination. I forgot that I had been concentrating for almost two hours by now. My mind must have switched off for a second because I suddenly was in a gentle left corner without being ready. I panicked and started to brake, even thoughmy mind told me to look through the corner and turn. I went straight, across the road, and onto the verge, and, doing about 20-30km/h into the ditch (full of nice long, soft grass) almost parrallel to it. Bike flooded, cracked fairings, sore ankle, very lucky. ( Actualy I think God was watching out for me!) Later I rode back to Blen carefully, with about 3 stops.

If I had been alert the corner would have been no problem. Lesson; know your limits, take frequent stops, practice emegency stopping and turning more! Nothing worth posting about, But:

On Thurday, after work, I felt like a ride. Got out the GSX-R250 I had brought off a mate not working and am doing up. It is now running fine. I head out for the open road, reminding myself to stay alert to avoid a repeat of Sunday. After abot 5min, am behind an old ute who is doing about 90km/h. after about a min we come to abit of straight, with a gentle Left corner before it. as we approch I change down and start to speed up. The ute starts to indecate left and pulls over a bit, I indecate right and pull out. the bike accelerates more than I am expecting and, still in the final part of the gentle corner, I instantly loose confidance and throttle off. My only thought is to slow down. I brake as I drift to the Right of the road, I know what is going to happen, and see there is a fence there, no ditch, so brake harder, the front hits some gravel on the right sholder ond is gone, Im thrown left. I was still doing at least 90Km/h, and land on my left shoulder, and slide/rolldown the road.

My mate was following behind on his 150, he and the ute stop. I was able to get off the road then fell down. Rang home and picked the pike up with a trailer. My left sholder of jacket torn down tho thefoam pads, helmet visor broken and helmet badly gouged, jeans torn in several places. Bleading on my legs slightly and sore sholder. Again very lucky. Bike is broken mirror, foot peg, fairing badly cracked, part of frame from seat back bent.

If I had throtteled off, looked through the corner and turned I would have been fine. I was unfamiler with the bike, and was to used to rideing at 70k, so panicked when it felt to fast.

It is going to take me a couple of months to buy a new jacket and helmet, and I might get some of those Draggin Jeans. The GSX-R250 is needing a bit of work too. I am going to have plenty of time to think, and am wondering about my lifespan if I continue. I definatly will need some pratical training!

Clearly motorcycles are not for you.

Give up, and get a Toyota Corolla.

[saxet]

Clearly motorcycles are not for you.

Give up, and get a Toyota Corolla.

Nah mate,you just need a bit more time on the bike a you build your skill level up.
It's pretty easy to over step the mark in any vehicle but for a learner it's easier, tho generally, you're going slower

[Maki]

Interestingly enough, the tighter the turn that youmake with the bike, the more the energy of the bike is used up by deformations in the tyre. This slows the bike down. The instructr at the ART days described this as "treadwalking".
I went into the corner after the front straight (Jennian corner) at Pukekohe too hot, and decided that instead of grabbing a handful of brakes, I would give treadwalking a go (there is not much runoff area there, and my bike is a commuter - os I needed it in one piece). And it WORKS - its scrubs off a LOT of speed quite quickly.

I am not so sure about the deformation. What I am sure of is that when you lean your bike over and get onto the inside of your tire the effective rolling radius of your rear tire decreases (your tyres radius is less at the edge than it is at the center). Less radius = more rotations for a given speed. More rotations = more revs. More revs = more engine braking. More engine braking will thus help you slow down a bit. There is also the effect of accelerating the rate of rotation of your wheels. Action = reaction and the reaction in this case will be to slow your bike down, unless you are actively giving it throttle which I am sure you will not be doing if it feels like you are going too fast.

So, making your bike lean more is a good thing.

[Scorp]

1) You lean your body centreline far to the inside of the bike centre line (to "kiss" the inside mirror)
2) You move back on your seat, and open your inside hip to the corner
3) You find the vanishing point and adjust speed accordingly to be moving as fast as the vanishing point is moving
4) You make sure that your arms are relaxed all the way through the corner - tight grip means heavy movements of the bars and no fine adjustments
5) You point your inside knee through the corner to its exit (not critical - but it helps to remind you about focussing your eyes)

I agree with some of what R-Soul suggests, however, until you become a lot more experienced I would recommend that you ride the way I do:

1) You keep your body in-line with the bike. Neither lean in further, nor lean out. This way you are looking at the same horizon as the bike and will have a much better feel for what the bike is doing.
2) You keep your backside in the same part of the seat. Don't try and move around on the seat. You should be part of the bike, or more correctly, the bike should be an extension of yourself. This will help for smooth riding and reduces the reaction times should the corner be different to what you expect, or should there be an obstacle in the way (eg a cop car doing a U-turn in front of you.)
3) You find the vanishing point and adjust speed accordingly to be moving as fast as the vanishing point is moving
4) You make sure that your arms are relaxed all the way through the corner - tight grip means heavy movements of the bars and no fine adjustments.
5) You keep your knees lightly gripping the tank. Do not move either knee away from the tank for any reason. This keeps the bike as part of you, rather than as something seperate that must be controlled.

The whole point is that you are part of a bike/rider combination. The bike should react to your thoughts, not you reacting to the bike. You are still riding on roads with other road users, once you progress to the race track, then try other techniques to speed up your lap times. Just don't try using race techniques on the road.

I think both of these posts are great advice.

I'm probably at similar place as Danny-Boy on the learning curve. I'm eligible to sit the restricted but still riding on the L plate. I've done about 1,500kms.

I practice a technique somewhere between R-Soul and Jantar, but closer to Jantar. I feel the most important thing to learn at the moment is to make countersteering absolute second nature.

Initially, my focus has been on Jantar's technique - it means you're fully in control of the bike and have an appropriate entry speed well before you take the corner. As a consequence I always came out of the corner feeling "I could have taken that faster" i.e. I was fully in control.

More recently I've been applying a junior version of the techniques R-Soul lists. Countersteering whilst shifting even a modest amount of weight onto the inside side of the bike allows you to keep the bike more upright in the bend. e.g. on a left bend, even just opening your left knee up and leaning towards the left mirror is enough to balance the bike at modest speeds, and to acquire the 'feel' of what leaning out is all about. Like Jantar, I don't shift my butt about in the seat, I just open up one knee and lean a little body weight out.

As a consequence, I'm finding it more comfortable to take bends a little faster, whilst remaining fully in control, and still coming out feeling that I'm taking them slower than I could have. And that's the place I want to keep it for a long time yet.

I find the hardest thing is relaxing my hand grip on the bars. Consciously gripping the tank with both knees before going into the bend helps. But if anyone has any other tips I'd be interested in hearing them.


I have one absolute golden rule about corners though, and I think it's one that could have saved you Danny-Boy (BTW: really glad to hear you weren't seriously hurt). I treat every single corner on the road as "cornering practice" and focus on trying to apply all the relevant techniques smoothly at 90%-100% of my comfort limit (which right now is very conservative).

And if there's ever anything, anything at all, between me and my 'cornering practice run', e.g. a tailgater, a slow vehicle ahead, or a cyclist, pedestrian, tar bleed, or even a miner bird - I abandon my 'practice run'. By abandon I mean I dial my speed well back and putter slowly through the bend/round the obstacle until all is good again.

In other words, don't try taking a bend and a slow moving ute at the same time.

[Magna83]

Clearly motorcycles are not for you.

Give up, and get a Toyota Corolla.

What a bloody pointless, smart-arse comment to make. If you haven't got any thing nice or constructive to say just put a sock in it.

Cheers for sharing Danny-Boy. The tips from the other riders are a big help to a noob rider like myself. Glad you came through relatively unhurt mate.

[steelphoenix]

Good to hear you're not too banged up - pity about the bikes, but they can be repaired. Practise more, I guess?

Thanks for the cornering advice, guys - it really helps noobs (well, me at least :P ) to have something to work from...

[Danny-Boy]

Thanks for the advice everyone. MAYBE the bikes can be repaired. Im having trouble tracking down forks fora 1989 GSX-R 250 JG73A. The bike shop say they have been bent before, and are now creased and weak. If anyone know where I could get some would be appreciated.

Cheers, Dan.

[MSTRS:Me]

Try _STAIN_

[R-Soul]

I am not so sure about the deformation. What I am sure of is that when you lean your bike over and get onto the inside of your tire the effective rolling radius of your rear tire decreases (your tyres radius is less at the edge than it is at the center). Less radius = more rotations for a given speed. More rotations = more revs. More revs = more engine braking. More engine braking will thus help you slow down a bit. There is also the effect of accelerating the rate of rotation of your wheels. Action = reaction and the reaction in this case will be to slow your bike down, unless you are actively giving it throttle which I am sure you will not be doing if it feels like you are going too fast.

So, making your bike lean more is a good thing.

Nah mate - I was not braking through the corner, engine braking or otherwise -your best grip is with throttle slightly on.

[Dare]

Nah mate - I was not braking through the corner, engine braking or otherwise -your best grip is with throttle slightly on.

Yes. Best grip is settled suspension during full lean and smooooth braking/throttle.

[FJRider]

What a bloody pointless, smart-arse comment to make. If you haven't got any thing nice or constructive to say just put a sock in it.

Perhaps ... you should take your OWN advice ...

[Brown Bear]

Sorry to hear you are having such a bad run.I sit my restricted in two weeks and all i can do is agree with what alot of the people are telling you. I have travelled 6000 km in the last six months all on the north shore of Auckland,just doing stop lights,roundabouts,stops,starts,turning for about 2 hours at a time.I also go to the nass run by the people on here.Has been absolutely brilliant in helping me learn to ride safely. One evening one of the people there showed me how to change gear easily just by giving the bike a few rev's before changing down.He explained how it worked,just a small thing but changed my riding drastically for the better.I have found people are more than willing to pass there experience on.I take every opportunity to learn i can.I have been adding motorways at 100km's the last month even thought it breaks my l-plate restriction.I think i am safe enough to now travel at that speed so i can get use to it.Once the L-plate has gone (all going well) i intend to do more open road riding but still attending anything i can to keep me learning.A few stalls in front of cars,buses and at lights over the last six months but people have been understanding and let me start my bike without abusing me,no crashes thank goodness.If possible get a mentor or go along to your local rides there is always someone willing to help.And enjoy riding i love it.

[Magna83]

Perhaps ... you should take your OWN advice ...

I like the way you left out the rest of my post in you quote

[FJRider]

I like the way you left out the rest of my post in you quote

I saw ... what I quoted, as good advice ... the rest ... it got your post count up ... by one.

Fast editing of your post by the way ... well done ...

[Magna83]

I saw ... what I quoted, as good advice ... the rest ... it got your post count up ... by one.

Fast editing of your post by the way ... well done ...

Getting off track here but I feel compelled to comment because you really are a child.

I also just noticed that you went as far as to leave negative rep on some of my other posts, few as they are, purely out of spite.... I think everyone would agree, that makes you a grade A