MSL Council to be lead by Gareth Morgan

[Max Preload]

Actually they still stop other vehicles crossing the centreline, my fiance and I came accross the crasiest rain we ever hit on the KTM mid last winter...wasnt rain tho

It was winscreen glass showering down on us from the car tangled into the WRB on Moonshine Bridge, River Road Upper Hutt
Worst installed WRBs I ever seen, 200ml from the edge of the lane.....

But with no WRB there we would have been dead coz it would been a car hitting us head on not glass shards, its actually saved our bacon. No exageration, we would have been run completely over head on by the drunken bitch that went to sleep with her kids in the car........

They do stop the cars, but I still hate em.

One thing MSL could be used for is to modify the worst sections...
Lets face it, untill you, me or Katman becomes prime minister TPTB will never remove such a shitty cheap option that effectively does it primary task very well, keeps cars/vans etc from crossing the centreline

Sorry, but simple physics and the manufacturers disagree. Your anecdotal evidence does not stack up against that.
http://www.csppacific.co.nz/Products...1&Categorized=
Those levels of deflection given on the table, which are typical, will ensure that installations immediately adjacent to opposing lanes will offer little beneficial protection. In the case of vehicles travelling in opposing directions at such close proximity the only acceptable solution is an inpenetrable barrier.

[StoneY]

Sorry, but simple physics and the manufacturers disagree. Your anecdotal evidence does not stack up against that.
.

Nothing anecdotal about seeing a 2.5 ton car stopped by the ropes before it got to me mate.

[oneofsix]

Actually they still stop other vehicles crossing the centreline, my fiance and I came accross the craziest rain we ever hit on the KTM mid last winter...wasn't rain tho

It was windscreen glass showering down on us from the car tangled into the WRB on Moonshine Bridge, River Road Upper Hutt
Worst installed WRBs I ever seen, 200ml from the edge of the lane.....

But with no WRB there we would have been dead coz it would been a car hitting us head on not glass shards, its actually saved our bacon. No exageration, we would have been run completely over head on by the drunken bitch that went to sleep with her kids in the car........

They do stop the cars, but I still hate em.

One thing MSL could be used for is to modify the worst sections...
Lets face it, untill you, me or Katman becomes prime minister TPTB will never remove such a shitty cheap option that effectively does it primary task very well, keeps cars/vans etc from crossing the centreline

on SH1, along the coastal they lowered the speed limit until the WRB was installed. After the WRB is installed the lower limit become permanent. This implies the WRB is a redundant and dangerous (to motorcyclists) piece of road furniture, either that or the lowered limit is redundant.
I have noted the lowered limit has caused distraction accidents, more than one driver admitting they lost concerntration along that stretch much has previously been proving safe at 100km. Hell I've had to shake myself awake, usually after the WRB, due to the boring tedium of that piece of road at 80km or less day after day.

[Max Preload]

Nothing anecdotal about seeing a 2.5 ton car stopped by the ropes before it got to me mate.

Perhaps you should look up the term anecdotal because that's exactly what your testimony is.

[StoneY]

Perhaps you should look up the term anecdotal because that's exactly what your testimony is.

I know what the word means, and you imply I am making up a 'relational storyline' with its use in your reply

This was a real incident pal, and there was nothing made up to be a comparison to reallity (thats an anectdote)
The WRB on Moonshine bridge saved my life and that of my fiance, fact, you were not there so don't try to imply my recollection of a real incident is in any way manner or form a fabrication to campare potentialreallity
It IS reallity.

I still hate em and say theyre the cheapest shittiest option out there, but it stopped that car for us that night.

[Ronin]

I know what the word means, and you imply I am making up a 'relational storyline' with its use in your reply

This was a real incident pal, and there was nothing made up to be a comparison to reallity (thats an anectdote)
The WRB on Moonshine bridge saved my life and that of my fiance, fact, you were not there so don't try to imply my recollection of a real incident is in any way manner or form a fabrication to campare potentialreallity
It IS reallity.

I still hate em and say theyre the cheapest shittiest option out there, but it stopped that car for us that night.

It is anecdotal as it it not a rigorously proven scientific fact that the WRB saved your life. Rather, it is an unproven story to any objective listener.

You may want to brush up on it. Government comities have a long history of not accepting anecdotal evidence.

[riffer]

Ronin and Max Preload - you're being pedantic wankers.

[Max Preload]

I know what the word means, and you imply I am making up a 'relational storyline' with its use in your reply. This was a real incident pal, and there was nothing made up to be a comparison to reallity (thats an anectdote)
The WRB on Moonshine bridge saved my life and that of my fiance, fact, you were not there so don't try to imply my recollection of a real incident is in any way manner or form a fabrication to campare potentialreallity
It IS reallity.

I never said you were making up anything regarding your experience that time. I was saying your claim of them working, even in close proximity to the roadway, is based on anecdotal evidence and carries no weight.

Look at the link to the definition of 'anecdotal' because you clearly don't actually know the meaning of the term.

Ronin and Max Preload - you're being pedantic wankers.

Is it now considered being pedantic to not accept one person's sole experience and observation over demostrable logic and actual tabulated test results as per my link?

[StoneY]

I never said you were making up anything regarding your experience that time. I was saying your claim of them working, even in close proximity to the roadway, is based on anecdotal evidence and carries no weight.

Look at the link to the definition of aneddotal evidence.

Fair call - symantics
But seriously thats one of the worst WRBs for proximity to the lane, and an S Bend shaped bend and bridge seriously off camber
The car spun along the WRB, we copped a shitload of flying debri but no car parts....just a glass shower

Then the drunken mole crawls out of her car and tells all the spectators we ran her off the road and our bikes under her car...wtf?
We werent even on the same side of the barrier...I was very happy there was a wrb there as opposed to a double yellow line..........

[riffer]

Is it now considered being pedantic to not accept one person's sole experience and observation over demostrable logic and actual tabulated test results as per my link?

No it is considered being a wanker to tell someone that their actual experience versus scientific theory is "just a story".

You're not a climate change scientist for a living are you?

[avgas]

Your examples cannot be easily be substituted with a safer alternative.

More people suffer injuries due to knife cuts that gunshot wounds in "relative" safe day to day life.
Now who is being anecdotal?

Likewise statistically speaking less people die in WRB than if the WRB were not there.

However I can see you are not happy with the fact that I have apparently made the alternative 'safer'. So lets go to the other extreme - imagine riding a motorbike through a safely marked trail in a landmine field.
Would you try and venture off that marked trail?

Or plugging in powered devices into a power source that has multiple outlets through a house and can kill you in less than 200 milliseconds. These outlets have the potential to be wet as well.

The world is a dangerous place my friend.....I suggest you keep the eyes on the prize rather than sugar coat it and bubble wrap it.

[MSTRS:Me]

Stoney - are we talking Stonechucker's bridge? On River Road, just north of the Moonshine Rd intersection?
I wonder how much potential deflection is over-ridden by the fact that the WRB is installed on a curve?
In saying that, I think of all the stupid positionings of WRB, installing on a curve has to be the worst. Anyone on the inside, that loses it for any reason, goes straight into that shit. For bikers, ride as safe as you like, but get hit by a sudden vicious crosswind, have a front tyre blowout, hit diesel or whatever...you're gone.

[avgas]

the only acceptable solution is an inpenetrable barrier.

Errr nope wrong again.
That is the most ideal solution.
Just like VDSL broadband, earthquake proof foundations........and my personal favorite term "REDUNDANCY".
All ideal for the situation..........yet still not done.

Still WRB offer better solution that previous attempts.......aka 2.75mm of white paint.
Acceptable is in the eyes of the customer.
Not the user.
Not the builder/designer.

[RiderInBlack]

One thing MSL could be used for is to modify the worst sections...
Lets face it, untill you, me or Katman becomes prime minister TPTB will never remove such a shitty cheap option that effectively does it primary task very well, keeps cars/vans etc from crossing the centreline

]Katman would leave the WRB there and put more in because he thinks that WRB will only kill stupid Riders.

[riffer]

Stoney - are we talking Stonechucker's bridge? On River Road, just north of the Moonshine Rd intersection?
I wonder how much potential deflection is over-ridden by the fact that the WRB is installed on a curve?
In saying that, I think of all the stupid positionings of WRB, installing on a curve has to be the worst. Anyone on the inside, that loses it for any reason, goes straight into that shit. For bikers, ride as safe as you like, but get hit by a sudden vicious crosswind, have a front tyre blowout, hit diesel or whatever...you're gone.

The very one John. On the plus side, Dave's accident was one of the mitigating factors used to forever close off the access to Upper Hutt side of Moonshine Road so that accident would never happen again. The WRB is not on the bridge itself; it's on the northern side stopping northbound traffic from turning into the path of oncoming traffic to get on to Moonshine Road.

In the case of Brent and Kelly I do believe they could have been subject to EXACTLY the same sort of accident as Dave had.

So while the installation of the WRB was not strictly in accordance with the legal guidelines, it would appear ANECDOTALLY that it actually saved a life or two.