MSL Council to be lead by Gareth Morgan

[riffer]

Did you not read what I had written or did you misunderstand what I had written?
Where in there do I suggest that MSL funds be used the make the WRB safer for Motorcycles? What I had suggested that MSL takes Smith at his "Word" that he would "Listen" to their "Advise" and advise him that WRB need to be made safer.
By the way, how many "Deaths" do you need before you accept something as not doing the job it was intend to do, or the a "Safety Barrier" is unsafe?

Sorry Doug, totally misunderstood you there. I've been banging my head against the wall over the MSL all day and my brains have turned to custard.

However, I'm not sure if the Minister has the veto right over MSL anyway. Interesting thought. Perhaps that's something an MSLC member could advise on.

[pete376403]

In the case of the WRB death - if instead it had been armco, or a concrete median barrier, is it absolutely sure that the person would have survived? IE it seems to be a given that the WRB was the sole cause of death, but would the crash have been any more survivable if the barrier had been anything else?

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

I for one think it will be a positive step for there to be a pro-motorbike voice associated with the ACC (even if it will be an uphill battle).

Far better than when we just had Mike "I hate motorbikes" Noon representing all road users. That man is single handedly responsible for giving Nick Smith the ammo for the hikes IMHO. Good on you lot for demanding that he not be involved.

[Brian d marge]

I for one think it will be a positive step for there to be a pro-motorbike voice associated with the ACC (even if it will be an uphill battle).

Far better than when we just had Mike "I hate motorbikes" Noon representing all road users. That man is single handedly responsible for giving Nick Smith the ammo for the hikes IMHO. Good on you lot for demanding that he not be involved.

I have that same feeling to, Watch wait and see

I would have no probl;em paying for ACC and some sort of Mc , extra cover / training what ever ...

Rip of Tax , ACC and cover I object to!

Stephen

[fossil]

I for one think it will be a positive step for there to be a pro-motorbike voice associated with the ACC (even if it will be an uphill battle).

Far better than when we just had Mike "I hate motorbikes" Noon representing all road users. That man is single handedly responsible for giving Nick Smith the ammo for the hikes IMHO. Good on you lot for demanding that he not be involved.

Found this on STUFF and I think this is the antithesis of Mike Noon;

Mr Searancke, who has been named as deputy chairman, said the council's focus would be decided at its first meeting next month.


"We want to make the most difference we can with the money we have and work on the areas where we can make the most gains."

The big positive was that the council was made up of motorcyclists, he said.

Mr Searancke believed the council would be successful.

A similar safety programme in Victoria, Australia, has seen motorcycle deaths and serious injuries fall by 20 per cent since it came into force in 2002.

"Victoria have good information they are willing to share with us," he said.

"Motorcycling is great – we just need to make sure fewer riders get hurt and killed."

[Usarka]

REDUCE THE LEVY's

While this is admirable, I'd prefer to see a decrease in the number of motorcycle fatalitys personally.

If we don't reduce the levy's there'll be fuck all motorcyclists to save in 10 years time.

[Fatt Max]

I don’t usually like to get embroiled in threads such as these but I feel compelled to throw my pie into the ring so to speak.

Personally, I oppose any increase in levies and the MSL. I believe the increases are based on flawed statistics and the MSL is rather a crude offer of retro compensation from a government that uses stealth tactics to achieve their ultimate gains, whatever they may be.

However, we are stuck with the levy increases for now, that’s a fact and at this point in time we cant make much of a difference to what exists.

Now, I have read with great interest these and other threads over the past 48 hours and have spoken to various people on ‘both sides of the fence’. The result of this is, for me, a way forward that may not please everyone but again, exists.

The MSL council, as far as I have ascertained, consists of individuals from the various motorcycling groups that were around at the time of the levy increase announcements and the BIKOI in 2009. As I see it, these people have been charged with ensuring the MSL funds are spent in the best interests of motorcyclists NZ wide regardless of what group, association or bakery they belong to. I don’t agree that the MSL fund exists (yes, I have said that) but what does give me a certain level of comfort is that the people on this council are bikers and by all accounts should ensure bikers get the best deal possible.

I for one am glad the council is not made up of a load of OSH type people, bankers, worn out safety advisors and ex politicians, none with any credentials whatsoever to fight our corner.

What we have here is individuals with experience as bikers.

What we also have here is a bunch of individuals who, I believe, are in for a pretty rough time in biker land. I mean, the council will not please everyone and these people will cop the flack. I wish them the best of luck with their endeavors and hope and pray that they do the best for the motorcycle community that I simply love being a part of. The council will be held responsible for their actions and whatever comes out of this.

I understand there is a time limit to reduce the crash stats and I hope that we, as bikers, see some kind of recognition for this if it happens. It does mean we have to be responsible for ourselves and ride safely as well as taking advantage of any upskilling that is available to us. Then, I see our community being able to kick back at these pollies, prove that we know what we are doing and demand a reduction in these levies. Yes, the levies should not exist but we are stuck with them, so lets work as a community to make life easier for all of us.

In closing, that is my fear. That all this shit fighting and jibbing is playing into the hands of those that want to see us divided. We are a community, MAG, BRONZ whoever, we all share the common lifestyle choice that is motorcycling. Lets at least try and maintain a level of solidarity as a community and make the change we know we can make.

I wish those who have taken up the mantle of working for our common rights the very best of luck, it would be rude not to really.

My opinion, that’s all

Ooh, pie time……..

[riffer]

Couldn't agree more.

Good on ya Mark. If you were down here I'd give you some of our home made bacon and egg pie.

[Fatt Max]

Couldn't agree more.

Good on ya Mark. If you were down here I'd give you some of our home made bacon and egg pie.

Oooh, now you have gone and given me a lard on.......oooooohhhhh....

[allycatz]

Great to see representation for scooters seeing as scooters took such a big hike in fees. Personally I would like to see one ACC annual fee per Licence holder that covers all vehicles as you can only ride / drive one thing at a time, but obviously the revenue collected as it is now would be far more attractive to ACC

[StoneY]

Someone say pie?
My workmate just dumped a custard square on my desk how nice of him! (even if he owns a Honda!)

[Fatt Max]

Someone say pie?
My workmate just dumped a custard square on my desk how nice of him! (even if he owns a Honda!)

A Honda owner dumping custard in your lap...?? Now there's a thought.....

[avgas]

Not, but I would blame the person callas enough to point a gun at someone else's head & it goes off. I would also object strongly to someone else pointing a gun to my head, without it going off. This is IMHO, exactly what they have done when the put a WRB in the middle of the road with no buffer zone.

And sign posts on the side of the roads.
And traffic in the other lane.
And hedgehogs/possums/chickens/ducks who feel the need to cross the road.
and speedbumps.
and traffic lights.
and the traffic in front of me.
and the traffic behind me.

sorry you metaphor is broken.
Its not really like pointing a gun at your face. Its more like putting a big bad dangerous knife in the kitchen where children/retards might walk.
Only dangerous if you decide to touch it. And you would have to lack some intelligence to want to touch it.

[Max Preload]

And sign posts on the side of the roads.
And traffic in the other lane.
And hedgehogs/possums/chickens/ducks who feel the need to cross the road.
and speedbumps.
and traffic lights.
and the traffic in front of me.
and the traffic behind me.

sorry you metaphor is broken.
Its not really like pointing a gun at your face. Its more like putting a big bad dangerous knife in the kitchen where children/retards might walk.
Only dangerous if you decide to touch it. And you would have to lack some intelligence to want to touch it.

Your examples cannot be easily be substituted with a safer alternative. The fact of the matter is that the WRBs aren't being installed according to the manufacturers guidelines which requires a 6m distance from the edge of the roadway to the WRBs - in most cases they're installed immediately adjacent to the roadway which offers no real protection to traffic flowing in the opposite direction - any vehicle that hits them will still cross to the opposing lane! Their proximity to the roadway makes them a uneccessary additional hazard for exposed motorists like motorcyclists.

In short, it's not that WRBs are being used... it's WHERE they're being used.

[StoneY]

in most cases they're installed immediately adjacent to the roadway which offers no real protection to traffic flowing in the opposite direction - any vehicle that hits them will still cross to the opposing lane!

Actually they still stop other vehicles crossing the centreline, my fiance and I came accross the craziest rain we ever hit on the KTM mid last winter...wasn't rain tho

It was windscreen glass showering down on us from the car tangled into the WRB on Moonshine Bridge, River Road Upper Hutt
Worst installed WRBs I ever seen, 200ml from the edge of the lane.....

But with no WRB there we would have been dead coz it would been a car hitting us head on not glass shards, its actually saved our bacon. No exageration, we would have been run completely over head on by the drunken bitch that went to sleep with her kids in the car........

They do stop the cars, but I still hate em.

One thing MSL could be used for is to modify the worst sections...
Lets face it, untill you, me or Katman becomes prime minister TPTB will never remove such a shitty cheap option that effectively does it primary task very well, keeps cars/vans etc from crossing the centreline