Speed cameras don't save lives

[BoristheBiter]

a "johnny dipply" shouldn't be on the road in the 1st place & is a failure of our licensing system, a signed speed does not make anything or anyone safe. Someone travelling the speed limit or under is way more dangerous than someone travelling at a safe speed.

And its 5 pounds of cash,

Sorry your logic is too good for me.
So let me get this right.
A driver/rider doing 100 along a straight is more dangerous than someone doing 200?
A driver/rider doing 65 around a 65 corner is more dangerous than someone going 100?

look I'm not saying that the current speed laws are correct and never have done but if it makes the johnny dipply's stay on their side of the road (not that it does) then why is that so bad?

Unfortunately laws are for everyone so the have to into account everyone even the muppets and as we all know the few will fuck it up for everyone.

[Scuba_Steve]

Sorry your logic is too good for me.
So let me get this right.
A driver/rider doing 100 along a straight is more dangerous than someone doing 200?
A driver/rider doing 65 around a 65 corner is more dangerous than someone going 100?

look I'm not saying that the current speed laws are correct and never have done but if it makes the johnny dipply's stay on their side of the road (not that it does) then why is that so bad?

Unfortunately laws are for everyone so the have to into account everyone even the muppets and as we all know the few will fuck it up for everyone.

your taking it well out of proportion but yes it could be true dependant on the road, as the slower people are more likely to look at the scenery or their speedo rather than the road causing a distraction which is NZ'ds biggest road killer.
If you are riding "properly" by legal standards your are expected to have your eyes OFF the road 25% of the time (yes quarter of all time on the road you should not be watching it), is this safe?

[BoristheBiter]

your taking it well out of proportion but yes it could be true dependant on the road, as the slower people are more likely to look at the scenery or their speedo rather than the road causing a distraction which is NZ'ds biggest road killer.
If you are riding "properly" by legal standards your are expected to have your eyes OFF the road 25% of the time (yes quarter of all time on the road you should not be watching it), is this safe?

See this is where all arguments (on both sides) falls over as like you said it "could be".

You could come round a corner happily at 100 and the next time hit gravel.
You have more time to react if your going slower and also if you are going slower you have more time to see the problem and avoid it.

We should ride with the most likely outcome at any given time:
Cop looking you don't speed why? you are most likely to get a ticket.
Slow down in rain why? bad visibility, bad traction.

The problem is some don't.

[swbarnett]

A cop driving past doesn't know if you are Rossie or johnny dipply.

Which is exactly the point. They are not qualified to judge another's driving.

[swbarnett]

Unfortunately laws are for everyone so the have to into account everyone even the muppets and as we all know the few will fuck it up for everyone.

So, if there is one muppet on the road that's not capable of driving at more than 20kph does that mean that we all have to stay at 20 or below?

There will always be varying degrees of competence. A system that does not recognise this penalises those that bother to learn how to drive and make the effort to stay alert at all times (or don't drive when they're not) i.e. the system we have at the moment actually punishes good driving.

[BoristheBiter]

Which is exactly the point. They are not qualified to judge another's driving.

That is why we have laws that they follow you break them you get a ticket.
How hard is that to follow?

So, if there is one muppet on the road that's not capable of driving at more than 20kph does that mean that we all have to stay at 20 or below?

No that is a licence issue and a whole new thread.

There will always be varying degrees of competence. A system that does not recognise this penalises those that bother to learn how to drive and make the effort to stay alert at all times (or don't drive when they're not) i.e. the system we have at the moment actually punishes good driving.

That's life, show me what is fair, my parents have worked all their life and get the same pension as someone that been on the dole.

the road rules aren't that bad and an open speed limit is 100 that's not that slow.

[Brian d marge]

If the laws were designed a little better , then driving /riding would be better .. trying to cut wood with a blunt saw can be done, but it would be better if the saw was sharp

Stephen

[scumdog]

a "johnny dipply" shouldn't be on the road in the 1st place & is a failure of our licensing system, a signed speed does not make anything or anyone safe. Someone travelling the speed limit or under is way more dangerous than someone travelling at a safe speed.

So as you flash by at a fair clip and the cop pulls you over he can judge in the 15 minutes of road-side track that you are NOT 'johnny dippy'???

And you'd accept his judgement on that?

And feel it would be fair for all others to accept that judgement of them too?

Oh-kaaay....

[Scuba_Steve]

So as you flash by at a fair clip and the cop pulls you over he can judge in the 15 minutes of road-side track that you are NOT 'johnny dippy'???

And you'd accept his judgement on that?

And feel it would be fair for all others to accept that judgement of them too?

Oh-kaaay....

Yes-ish
No
No

It's not hard to tell a good driver from a bad one & the bad ones usually reside at the extremes, they are either well excessive speed & will weave in & out of traffic (your scam does attack these ones & Holden is a common offender here), or well below the limit & have no fucking clue how to use the road (your scam does not attack these ones & they are usually left alone to endanger lives, People movers & old people are usually the offenders here). But a cop should NOT be judging anyone it is not their job & they are not permitted to do so, their job is to accuse & prove Not to judge, jury or execute.

[scumdog]

Yes-ish
No
No

It's not hard to tell a good driver from a bad one & the bad ones usually reside at the extremes, they are either well excessive speed & will weave in & out of traffic (your scam does attack these ones & Holden is a common offender here), or well below the limit & have no fucking clue how to use the road (your scam does not attack these ones & they are usually left alone to endanger lives, People movers & old people are usually the offenders here). But a cop should NOT be judging anyone it is not their job & they are not permitted to do so, their job is to accuse & prove Not to judge, jury or execute.

Well, far out, what can I say?

Nothing, - except I'm alarmed at the prospect of sharing the road with somebody who has a mind-set like that...sheeesh...

We're NOT expected to be allowed to judge anybody re their driving - but we're expected to pick the 'bad drivers' (tm) and deal to them regardless???

[Gremlin]

We're NOT expected to be allowed to judge anybody re their driving - but we're expected to pick the 'bad drivers' (tm) and deal to them regardless???

Well yeah... I thought you guys had osmosys to help you? No? You're normal?

Whatever was he thinking

[swbarnett]

That is why we have laws that they follow you break them you get a ticket.
How hard is that to follow?

That depends on your personality type. Some, like you, are only too happy to be told what to do and tow someone else's line. You don't want to think for yourself. The rest of us require a reason to follow someone else's instructions. We need to understand why that instruction is given and when the stated reason does not stack up we will, quite rightly, ignore it.

Life is about living, not just existing. If the law interferes with my ability to live my life as I see fit and does not help anyone else do likewise it will get no respect from me.

Think about when you were at school. Remember when the teacher held everyone back simply because the trangressor could not be identified? Punishing the entire class for one person's wrong doing only creates bitterness. It does not solve anything.

That's life, show me what is fair, my parents have worked all their life and get the same pension as someone that been on the dole.

No, life is not fair. I learnt that a long time ago. That does not mean that I have to sit back and take whatever is thrown at me. We have the right and the duty to rail against any form of oppression, no matter how small.

the road rules aren't that bad and an open speed limit is 100 that's not that slow.

I agree. They could be a lot worse. However, it is this kind of thinking that allows governments to put the citezins it is supposed to serve under ever increasing levels of oppression. If a law does not make sense it needs to be either amended until it does or removed entirely. If a government refuses to do this then the government itself must be removed and replaced with one that will.

We have it good in NZ, too good. People are too scared of losing what freedom we have to complain about the little bits we are losing. Because of this we lose more and more freedom a little at a time. Future generations will wonder why their grandparents didn't stop the slide when they had the chance.

[BoristheBiter]

That depends on your personality type. Some, like you, are only too happy to be told what to do and tow someone else's line. You don't want to think for yourself. The rest of us require a reason to follow someone else's instructions. We need to understand why that instruction is given and when the stated reason does not stack up we will, quite rightly, ignore it.

Life is about living, not just existing. If the law interferes with my ability to live my life as I see fit and does not help anyone else do likewise it will get no respect from me.

Think about when you were at school. Remember when the teacher held everyone back simply because the trangressor could not be identified? Punishing the entire class for one person's wrong doing only creates bitterness. It does not solve anything.


No, life is not fair. I learnt that a long time ago. That does not mean that I have to sit back and take whatever is thrown at me. We have the right and the duty to rail against any form of oppression, no matter how small.


I agree. They could be a lot worse. However, it is this kind of thinking that allows governments to put the citezins it is supposed to serve under ever increasing levels of oppression. If a law does not make sense it needs to be either amended until it does or removed entirely. If a government refuses to do this then the government itself must be removed and replaced with one that will.

We have it good in NZ, too good. People are too scared of losing what freedom we have to complain about the little bits we are losing. Because of this we lose more and more freedom a little at a time. Future generations will wonder why their grandparents didn't stop the slide when they had the chance.

I am not getting into this argument again.
I think you are wrong, you think i am wrong and we will just leave it there.
Have a good weekend.

[swbarnett]

I am not getting into this argument again.
I think you are wrong, you think i am wrong and we will just leave it there.
Have a good weekend.

Appreciate the sentiment. I don't like getting in to this argument either.

The trouble is that those on your side of the argument are well suited by the status quo. Those on my side are not.

Ah, well. No point flogging a dead horse.

Have a good weekend. Enjoy the roads while you can.

[BoristheBiter]

Appreciate the sentiment. I don't like getting in to this argument either.

The trouble is that those on your side of the argument are well suited by the status quo. Those on my side are not.

Ah, well. No point flogging a dead horse.

Have a good weekend. Enjoy the roads while you can.

I think the biggest problem i have with all of it is i don't agree with the current laws, fines or quality of or roads.
I vote in who i think will make a difference and have realized in 40 years no on will.

I now just ride where i will have fun and save those speeds for the track.
I haven't given in, I just know that sitting here crying about a ticket is not going to make it go away.

The sun is out i'm off for a ride.