Making motorcycling safer

[Katman]

Unfortunately as we have all been saying here, the majority of motorcycle accidents ARE NOT caused by the motorcyclist

I think you'll find they are actually.

[oldrider]

What would you do to make motorcycling safer? What laws need to be passed? What training do different riders need? What attitude shift do all road users need?

Attitude towards motorcycles must change!

Would that god the gift to give us
to see our selves
as others see us!

Respect can only be earned, so far we have not done very well in that department!

We need to have other road users accept motorcycles as a legitimate and legal form of transport, just like they think "they" are!

Motorcycles are not toys and motorcyclists are not unessential road users!

Other road users "don't see us" because "they" think we don't belong and many of us behave in a manner that endorses that belief!

Their perception is their reality, "we" must do "our" best to change that!

People in so called positions of "authority" must change their "negative" attitudes toward motorcycles as well!

I (personally) believe that this is one of the biggest obstacles facing motorcycle acceptance in the community at large!

The rest is up to us.

[Oscar]

Yup. I failed to learn too many advanced skills but I sure fall down way better.

"Er indoors is the first person I've taught to ride that hasn't started with serious time on a small dirt bike. In the greasiest slime I can find.

100hrs compulsary boot camp on an XR200.

Kenny Roberts had a riding schooll for GP riders which involved racing XR100's on the dirt. Dirt riding teaches control in dubious traction.

[Ocean1]

Dirt riding teaches control in dubious traction.

It does. And the control inputs are the same at higher speeds. It's just that at GP racing speeds speeds ALL traction is dubious, and most of us mere mortals run out of time.

[swbarnett]

what techniques should riders be taught to improve that safety?

Technique, while important, is secondary. First riders must be taught attitude. The mindset that your safety is your own resposibility and noone else's.

After all the crashes I've had (all within the first two years of riding in the early 80s) my first thought was "What could I have done to prevent it?" Every time I've come up with an answer and learnt from it (even when I was not legally at fault). An answer of "nothing" is not acceptable.

[shrub]

Technique, while important, is secondary. First riders must be taught attitude. The mindset that your safety is your own resposibility and noone else's.

After all the crashes I've had (all within the first two years of riding in the early 80s) my first thought was "What could I have done to prevent it?" Every time I've come up with an answer and learnt from it (even when I was not legally at fault). An answer of "nothing" is not acceptable.

Good answer! Probably why your accidents were all in the 1980s. Attitude is definately the key, and the best part is, it's quick and easy. I can change my attitude in about a minute, but learning skill can take years. Also attitude leads to learning skills..

[swbarnett]

experienced riders who don’t have an advanced qualification.

While I agree that training will more than likely improve any rider I wonder what they class as an "experienced" rider - a 40yr weekend warrior that only rides in fine weather when the wife allows or a 2yr rider who commutes and rides recreationally in ALL weathers every day?

[Blackbird]

While I agree that training will more than likely improve any rider I wonder what they class as an "experienced" rider - a 40yr weekend warrior that only rides in fine weather when the wife allows or a 2yr rider who commutes and rides recreationally in ALL weathers every day?

Anyone who isn't a novice and not an advanced rider presumably - could be either. It sounds like you disparage people who only ride at weekends, yet they can still be competent - depends on what sort of riding they do. Someone who commutes daily in town isn't necessarily any better.

[davebullet]

Technique, while important, is secondary. First riders must be taught attitude. The mindset that your safety is your own resposibility and noone else's.

After all the crashes I've had (all within the first two years of riding in the early 80s) my first thought was "What could I have done to prevent it?" Every time I've come up with an answer and learnt from it (even when I was not legally at fault). An answer of "nothing" is not acceptable.

A wise man once said.

[davebullet]

Anyone who isn't a novice and not an advanced rider presumably - could be either. It sounds like you disparage people who only ride at weekends, yet they can still be competent - depends on what sort of riding they do. Someone who commutes daily in town isn't necessarily any better.

Commuting and weekend riding involve different skills. Enough practice at one doesn't make you competent at the other. I've found you are more likely to induce oh shit moments on the weekend stuff (as you tend to do it for fun and push yourself). When commuting I find my mindset completely focusses on self preservation and reading other drivers signals. I'm also more courteous when commuting and realise it is a great way to build PR with car drivers. Always let an indicating driver in. In a queue - let the side street driver across (checking there isn't a cyclists barrelling down the side oblivious to the gesture). Thank the driver that lets you into his lane for you to then lane split.

We'll build our credibility on the road with other users when we behave with them. Actually - most drivers probably resent our lane splitting, so a bit of PR saying we are shortening the queues by doing so might be a good idea.

[swbarnett]

It sounds like you disparage people who only ride at weekends,

Not at all. Certainly there are weekend warriors that can ride bettter than me.

All I'm saying is calling someone an "experienced" rider covers a very wide range of skill sets and attitudes and doesn't necessarily mean a lot.

[swbarnett]

Actually - most drivers probably resent our lane splitting,

I've found quite the opposite in Auckland if the number of drivers that make room is anything to go by.

[Usarka]

Technique, while important, is secondary. First riders must be taught attitude. The mindset that your safety is your own resposibility and noone else's.

After all the crashes I've had (all within the first two years of riding in the early 80s) my first thought was "What could I have done to prevent it?" Every time I've come up with an answer and learnt from it (even when I was not legally at fault). An answer of "nothing" is not acceptable.

Good post, but how do we get others to learn from your mistakes? There's a combination of factors working against that concept ("it won't happen to me", misjudging capabilities of self and machine, ignorance of what can go wrong and the consequences, youthfulness, bad decision making, etc).

I'm still thinking decent training could be a decent way to learn from others mistakes (or maybe education campaigns but I'm not convinced about those - remember the "look out for motorbikes" bollox...).

I recall having to do untold repititions of emergency braking drills (including in the wet) and my instructor reinforcing these with anecdotes and pretend situations. And continually pointing out hazards over the radio while we rode around London and surrounding countryside (all on a big bike too).

Also +1 to the dirt skills - funilly enough my mountain bike reactions have saved my bacon on two occasions in the early days of riding before I learnt the practicalities of loose metal and shiny wet tar). Sometimes we do get ourselves in the shit regardless, and skills can make the difference between getting out of it in one piece or being zipped up in a bag........

Fuck too much coffee /rant.

[Blackbird]

I'm still thinking decent training could be a decent way to learn from others mistakes (or maybe education campaigns but I'm not convinced about those - remember the "look out for motorbikes" bollox...).

It was advanced training which covered situational awareness and emergency braking which started to switch on the lightbulb for me. (see http://geoffjames.blogspot.com/2010/...g-moments.html ) for the personal impact it had). It also has a link to 2 great YouTube videos on situational awareness.

It's only a personal opinion, but I think that advertising campaigns are largely a waste of time - it has to be practical, hands-on exposure.

[shrub]

While I agree that training will more than likely improve any rider I wonder what they class as an "experienced" rider - a 40yr weekend warrior that only rides in fine weather when the wife allows or a 2yr rider who commutes and rides recreationally in ALL weathers every day?

I liken motorcycling to flying - they both require a high degree of skill, are both unforgiving of operator error and are both unforgiving of poor maintenance. And when either goes wrong, blood is spilt; whereas a car can have a major crash resulting in zero injury. Therefore I believe we can learn a lot from pilots.

1. License based on hours - I spent 10 years training as a pilot, but I only had around 20 hours so never got my license (bikes were more fun and cheaper).

2. Student riders complete a logbook of experience - before you get your license you need to have recorded time on the open road, in the dark, in rain, heavy traffic etc. This would be bloody hard to enforce, so it would be an honesty thing and would get the message across that you need to know how to ride in a range of conditions.

3. Before getting a license you need to complete rider training, including classroom. The test would not just be restricted to knowing the road code, but knowing about the importance of the front brake, countersteering, target fixation, situational awareness, ATGATT, machine condition etc.

4. All motorcyclists are required to ride a minimum amount per annum to keep their licenses, and if you haven't ridden for more than (say) 3 years you are required to complete a refresher course. My mother in law has a full motorcycle license! In the 70s she rode a 125 to work for a couple of years, yet is legally entitled to ride an R1.

5. Getting involved in a "rider at fault" crash where the police attend would require an assessment by an independent examiner and potentially retraining. I once knew a woman who thought that the back brake was the one to use, and had 2 crashes because of it, so this would identify situations like that.

6. Have a seperate class of license for high performance and big bikes (eg Rockets and M109s) that includes a minimum of 5 years regular riding and skill and attitude assessment. I was talking to a guy the other day who had just got his full and is in the market for a new BMW1000RR. He's in his late 40s, had never really ridden until his mates all got bikes, he saw the toys, heard about the rallies and decided he should join them. He is well coined up and has a nearly new HSV GTS thing and a kick arse jet ski, so he wanted the fastest bike on the block.