MSL Council to be lead by Gareth Morgan

[Katman]

Won't that make our figures look even better? as I would estimate a higher proportion of bike license holders don't ride anymore, than car license holders who don't drive anymore.

What the fuck have car license holders got to do with it?

[The Stranger:Me]

That is the comparison that holds relevance.

Why? Numerous licensed riders haven't ridden in yonks. Sure some of them have decided to get back into riding for various reasons - and this is now showing up in stats.
The number of KM travelled would be more appropriate - and could be calculated aproximately from WOF stats perhaps.

[Katman]

Except we can't guarantee that licenced riders ride all the time.

That's right. It actually needs to be active licensed riders.

[The Stranger:Me]

What the fuck have car license holders got to do with it?

They're the ones causing all the accidents so it stands to reason the more there are the more of us die.

[bogan]

What the fuck have car license holders got to do with it?

Cos it's all relative to how other motorists are doing, you think someone just pulled a number out of their arse and said, this many is acceptable, lets tax em down to that number of deaths? No, they saw bikers crash more often than cars (per rego), and deemed us high risk.

That's right. It actually needs to be active licensed riders.

Now that would be a good measure, bastard to get though, be easier to ask nzta for the numbers of motorcycle owning individuals.

[MSTRS:Me]

2003 - 56047 (don't think this includes unlicensed vehicles, but not 100%)
2010 - 88201 (not including unlicensed vehicles)
EDIT: actually those two are form different sources, the 2008 figure (same source as 2003) is for 96952

2000 - 30 deaths = 5.3/10,000 bikes
2001 - 35 = 6.1/10,000
2002 - 30 = 5.2/10,000
2003 - 30 = 5.0/10,000
2004 - 34 = 5.8/1000
2005 - 35 = 5.8/10,000
2006 - 38 = 5.1/10,000
2007 - 41 = 4.8/10,000
2008 - 50 = 5.2/10,000

I don't have figures for 2009 + 2010, but they are similar.

[blackdog]

Except we can't guarantee that licenced riders ride all the time.

that's, fine.

skews the results in our favour surely (for a change)

[idleidolidyll]

Stoney

It's not about you personally and framing it that way is unhelpful.

You did your best and organized a very good event but the fact is that it did not achieve the goal (axing of the levy increases)

Given that it didn't work, to think that the same kind of action will work is illogical. Something different needs to be done.

As I said, I don't believe Gareth will actually achieve what most of us want as he is a National man working within the system set up by Nick Asswipe Smith.
Any action that works within their framework is controlled by them or preordained to fail or get minimal results. Work outside the framework National sets up and think laterally about how to put pressure on them to make changes.

National has an agenda they refuse to admit but which was obvious to some of us long ago and is becoming so to others now. They want to privatize ACC and making it really expensive is a tactic toward that end. Attacking the tactic ignores their goal and their goal is the reason why we are being ass reamed by the sniveling turd in charge of ACC. He has an agenda that pays more respect to Aussie insurance companies than it does to Kiwi bikers. How can you combat that?

Going for rides will do nothing just as it did with the cheese cutter campaign and your Bikoi.

we have to get more radical

[RiderInBlack]

National has an agenda they refuse to admit but which was obvious to some of us long ago and is becoming so to others now. They want to privatize ACC and making it really expensive is a tactic toward that end. Attacking the tactic ignores their goal and their goal is the Eason why we are being ass reamed by the sniveling turd in charge of ACC. He has an agenda that pays more respect to Aussie insurance companies than it does to Kiwi bikers. How can you combat that?
Going for rides will do nothing just as it did with the cheese cutter campaign and your Bikoi.

Exactly, As long as we continue to being sucked in to the "It's all about bikers" BS, we are playing into Tricky Nicky's hands and continue to help him blind-side NZ to the real issue and that it's the Privatization of ACC.

[Brian d marge]

From Memory National have always said they will privatize , government services , New right thinking, etc

And sorry 12000 odd bikers while being voters ain't worth a hill of beans

Grey power on the other hand , only just can get the titanic to change coarse

The answer , ???

Well the more people that clearly understand how it will all impact on their personal freedoms ,,, MAY May be of some use to bikers that means Stop arguing and just vote , for one group , say the greens ( it really doesn't matter who )


In the mean time we may get some token gestures from the new council ,,, Holding My breath .....................

Sod that

Stephen

[Usarka]

I have a serious request for the council......

Make filtering / lane splitting legal. There are many countries where this is currently the case (because we know governments like to look at how other places do it) especially UK / Europe.

Benefits:

• Help reduce congestion.
• Improve tolerance/attitude towards bikers by legally validating their actions.

[James Deuce]

I have a serious request for the council......

Make filtering / lane splitting legal. There are many countries where this is currently the case (because we know governments like to look at how other places do it) especially UK / Europe.

Benefits:

• Help reduce congestion.
• Improve tolerance/attitude towards bikers by legally validating their actions.

It's not illegal right now. People just do it wrong.

[Usarka]

It's not illegal right now. People just do it wrong.

It's pseudo-legal. The maneuvor should be recognised independant of the passing while stationary law. (ie remove the "must stay left of lane stuff")

And if "we" bikers don't understand it then sure as shit that car drivers don't.

Most of them think it is illegal, and esp in Auckland a lot of them get very (very very) angry about it. I just think this might be an area we get get better relations with other road users from a minor legislation change and a bit of education.....


At the very least, educate drivers that we are allowed to do it under the current law (while your at it also educate the cops....)

[Katman]

Most of them think it is illegal, and esp in Auckland a lot of them get very (very very) angry about it.

That's probably more to do with the number of times they've had their wing mirrors hit.

[James Deuce]

Not pseudo-legal. Legal. Each lane on a motorway in NZ is its own highway. If you overtake on the right of the vehicle you're passing while indicating, you're fine.

Most people do it wrong. Provided bikes aren't travelling more than 20km/hr faster than the surrounding traffic, I think you'll find 99% of cops don't care. It's the people who leave their indicator on, do 120 km/hr in a 60 km/hr traffic flow, and have their right indicator on while overtaking to the left of a vehicle in the same lane that make life a bit squidgy for other motorcyclists.