Police say had the rider been wearing...

**Flip** · 7th February 2011, 09:43

Originally Posted by Crasherfromwayback

It is you that needs to get a grip. You wank on about being able to avoid vehicles doing u turns, like you're some motorcycling God. Fact is...you're (once more) insulting dead riders, and their families with your drivel. If you seriously think all u turn accidents can be avoided by riders...you're even more delusional than I think you are.

Never thought I'd say this about or to anyone...but I hope one day you come face to face with a u turning vehicle you can't avoid. But of course...you're so good it'll never happen eh!

He is fucking with you, Katman makes ambiguous statements, see who bites then then adopts the moral high ground.

**Spearfish** · 7th February 2011, 09:45

Originally Posted by miloking

Since you want me to clarify, .... the serves "you" is mean for all police in general, it was just "counter-troll" for scummy and not to be taken seriously by intelligent reader.

I'm probably repeating myself

Ah ok, so one of those "he dropped a turd on your lawn and you picked it up and stuffed it in his letterbox" sorta posts...but you picked up a turd dude.......

Be happy Milo, you survived another weekend, far to many others didn't.

How many so far this "season"?

**Camshaft** · 7th February 2011, 09:48

Originally Posted by Katman

Vehicles don't pull u-turns without giving some clues as to their intention.

obviously u dont get out much

**Katman** · 7th February 2011, 09:49

Originally Posted by Camshaft

obviously u dont get out much

And you obviously don't look hard enough.

**Crasherfromwayback** · 7th February 2011, 09:50

Originally Posted by Flip

He is fucking with you, Katman makes ambiguous statements, see who bites then then adopts the moral high ground.

Katman probably doesn't even ride a motorcycle. If he did, he may realise some accidents can't be avoided by riders. Hell...even poor old Abe (RIP) got cleaned up by a u turn. Be really surprised if Abe's skills and situational awareness wasn't light years ahead of Katmans an all. But no...Katman would've avoided that one...no sweat.

**Banditbandit** · 7th February 2011, 09:50

Originally Posted by Katman

You seem to have the wrong end of the stick here.

The last thing I want is for the government to decide we're all going to be forced to wear day-glo. I've never worn it and don't ever intend starting to.

But the only way we have a shit show of avoiding that is by starting to do a better job of looking out for idiots that don't look out for us.

And sometimes it is impossible to avoid ... we are never ever going to have 100% safety on a motorcycle with idiot cage drivers on the road (and trucks drivers ...) and yes, I agree with idiot riders too ..

Originally Posted by Flip

He is fucking with you, Katman makes ambiguous statements, see who bites then then adopts the moral high ground.

Maybe .. but in this case a rider died .. not a senario to fuck with people's heads over ...

**Usarka** · 7th February 2011, 09:54

Originally Posted by Kickaha

Depends on what he got them for? demerits don't necessarily mean he was doing anything unsafe, unless of course you believe the whole speed kills

Cop are identifiable road hazards. Even the ones that are hiding with lasers on bridges or using instant-on there are ways to reduce the risks using situational awareness and risk assessment skills.

I have no problem with infringements per se - it depends on the other factors. But for someone who preaches such exacting standards about hazard identification (and his other favourite - not doing things to put bikers in bad light) to fail to the point of almost losing his licence is hypocritical.

And to make these comments in response to a rider being killed.....? This thread is an embarrasement.

**Katman** · 7th February 2011, 09:55

Originally Posted by Crasherfromwayback

Hell...even poor old Abe (RIP) got cleaned up by a u turn. Be really surprised if Abe's skills and situational awareness wasn't light years ahead of Katmans an all.

Racetrack skills don't necessarily = road skills.

**phill-k** · 7th February 2011, 09:59

I just have to join in too

In NZ we by and large have a large deal of respect for our police, this may have been downgraded somewhat because of the merger with the Traffic enforcement chaps, but by in large that respect is still there. I find it disappointing that our media are given the opportunity to "put to print all or part" of statements made by attending officers at these serious or fatal road crashes long before the causation has been determined by their specialist unit. Of late the statement speed and or alcohol may be involved and now a determination that a hi vis vest may have prevented this accident. The public unfortunately take what is said and reported in the papers as gospel especially if it is attributed to the likes of a police officer and I believe this is where all the previous argument has come from.

What I take from this thread is:

1. Perhaps some of the Levy could be spent on campaigning for the abolishing of the "U" turn in areas of high traffic flow, multi laned areas, narrow roads, or even all together. - A short trip around the block instead as is the case in Aussie in some of their high flow / risk roads where they have even banned right turns.

2. We need to take responsibility for our own survival on the roads, knowing we do not have the protection of a metal frame heightened vigilance at all times.

3. The acknowledgement that whilst this is a most unfortunate crash (not an accident) the statistics show that the majority of deaths on our roads are through our own actions - oh but for the grace of god go i" We need to accept that regardless of Hi-Vis (and I will not wear one even if it becomes law) or other supposed aid we are basically invisible on the road and thus do not have the "right of way"

4. I do not like to read or see the results of our own doings but it seems every week we see the results, and from this I take a message that to increase my chances of survival on the roads doing what I enjoy I need to recognise and respect my own limitations and not push the boundaries or I will pay the consequence.

5. In a perverse way I take some personal comfort from the statistics in that if 70 - 90% of m/c deaths were attributed to other causes such as cage drives not giving a fuck I probably would think twice about getting out there.

6. I am somewhat concerned about posters who have mentioned riding hd's or some such and being observed, but when riding scooters or coloured bikes being ignored, I have had this same experience which tends to indicate that this may be a part of the issue - the perceived threat in the subconscious.

I would like to see the Police introduce a hell of a lot more motorcycle police on our roads, this would no doubt educate the public to look out for bikes!

**Smifffy** · 7th February 2011, 10:12

Originally Posted by Spearfish

Be happy Milo, you survived another weekend, far to many others didn't.

It is unhelpful to speculate in an official capacity that hi-viz vests may have altered that outcome.

**Crasherfromwayback** · 7th February 2011, 10:22

Originally Posted by Katman

Racetrack skills don't necessarily = road skills.

I would've been happy to have bet $1000.00 you'd say that. But how do you know Abe wasn't a safe, totally alert road rider? Oh that's right...you don't. You just think you do...like you always do. I've been cleaned up by u turns twice...and I think it impossible no matter how good any other rider thinks they may be, to have been able to avoid either instance. And just because I've done a lot of racing, I can't see why I can't be considered good on the streets too. Oh that's right...I've been cleaned up twice...you never have! (Just thought I'd beat you to that one)

**Swoop** · 7th February 2011, 10:26

Originally Posted by Katman

Yeah, except that a cop hiding on the side of the road with a laser gun isn't exactly a safety hazard, is it?

It sounds like you did not plan ahead and anticipate the road conditions, then act accordingly to avoid the hazard.

No jammer fitted, eh?

**Flip** · 7th February 2011, 10:27

Originally Posted by Crasherfromwayback

I would've been happy to have bet $1000.00 you'd say that. But how do you know Abe wasn't a safe, totally alert road rider? Oh that's right...you don't. You just think you do...like you always do. I've been cleaned up by u turns twice...and I think it impossible no matter how good any other rider thinks they may be, to have been able to avoid either instance. And just because I've done a lot of racing, I can't see why I can't be considered good on the streets too. Oh that's right...I've been cleaned up twice...you never have! (Just thought I'd beat you to that one)

It also sounds like you are beginning to do Katmans job for him?