Who is sick of all the Waitangi bullshit?

[R-Soul]

It's only going to get worse. Sadly the white race are being outbred and will become the smallest minority race in the world. White extinction is such a sickening thought... a world without blond hair blue eyed woman

The good news is that the world is going to be Chinese or Indian!

[avgas]

The British managed to move on from what the Germans did to them in WW2, the Japanese managed to move on from being nuked by the USA, why the phuck can't the Maoris get over what happened a few hundred years ago?

It's because the cunts want to rip every phucking white cunt off for as much as they can. Sure, not all Maoris rip people off but have a look on TV and you'll see what I mean.

yOU KNOW FOR A RACIST.....YOUR ACTUALLY RIGHT THIS TIME.

I USED TO THINK THAT PEOPLE HERE WERE HARD DONE BY, THEN I MET MY WIFE AND WENT TO HER HOME TOWN - SHANGHAI, CHINA. MADE WAITANGI LOOK LIKE A WALK IN THE PARK.

I AM NOT SAYING WHAT HAPPENED IN NZ IS FINE BY ANY MEANS - BUT WHEN I LOOK AT WHAT HAS HAPPENED WITH VARIOUS OTHER RACES AROUND THE WORLD....AT LEAST WE SHOULD BE HUMBLED AS TO HOW MUCH WORSE IT COULD HAVE BEEN, AND WHAT WE HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD.

IF THE ATTITUDE OF THE CHINESE CAN CHANGE FROM LOOKING AT THE PAST TO THE FUTURE - I AM SURE THAT THE MAORI MANTRA FROM THE SAME NATURE CAN CHANGE TO THIS ALSO.

[avgas]

WOOT CAPS IS ON!

[BoristheBiter]

let me expand on that one a little bit.

We are not looking at equality, but at Equity - a slightly different thing.

If we look at the life chances of children, sure, children in rich families have more and better life chances than children in poor families. Children with poor life chances tend to end up in jail, as addicts, poor educational outcomes, low-paid jobs, unemployment, etc etc ..

Now, Māori children generally have fewer and poorer life chances than Pākehā children. Many of them end up exactly as I described above - in jail, unemployed etc etc ...

We are saying that because our resources were forcably taken and we were not able to join the modern world as equals ( we tried but it all got taken from us) then right now we need help to improve the life chances of our children. So, give us some money to settle past grievances and we will use that reousrce tyo A) build it, as Ngai Tahu and Ngati Awa have - very quickly doubled the money the crown gave them. That will give us the basis to imrpove the life chances of our children.

This will pay off in the future, in lower prison costs (fewer Māori criminals) lower health costs (Better Maori health) lower benefit costs (More Māori in employment ) etc etc ..

OK i will bite.

So what you what is just another hand out.

Try working for it and you might find that you will get more respect then expecting someone to give it you for nothing.

You talk about these are not your leaders, well guess what they are, they are the one's that were voted in on race based seats. if these aren't your leaders then why have they been voted in, or voted out?

Oh Boo hoo, my father was a drunk, we have no money, we live in the middle of nowhere, just more excuses of why it is easier to fail in life. I grew up with my parents giving up everything so i do better than them or at least have the chance to do so.

Stop feeling sorry for yourselves, get off your arse and do a hard days work. You never know you might get the things the rest us New Zealanders have.

[onearmedbandit]

OK i will bite.

So what you what is just another hand out.

Try working for it and you might find that you will get more respect then expecting someone to give it you for nothing.

You talk about these are not your leaders, well guess what they are, they are the one's that were voted in on race based seats. if these aren't your leaders then why have they been voted in, or voted out?

Oh Boo hoo, my father was a drunk, we have no money, we live in the middle of nowhere, just more excuses of why it is easier to fail in life. I grew up with my parents giving up everything so i do better than them or at least have the chance to do so.

Stop feeling sorry for yourselves, get off your arse and do a hard days work. You never know you might get the things the rest us New Zealanders have.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[onearmedbandit]

let me expand on that one a little bit.

We are not looking at equality, but at Equity - a slightly different thing.

If we look at the life chances of children, sure, children in rich families have more and better life chances than children in poor families. Children with poor life chances tend to end up in jail, as addicts, poor educational outcomes, low-paid jobs, unemployment, etc etc ..

Now, Māori children generally have fewer and poorer life chances than Pākehā children. Many of them end up exactly as I described above - in jail, unemployed etc etc ...

We are saying that because our resources were forcably taken and we were not able to join the modern world as equals ( we tried but it all got taken from us) then right now we need help to improve the life chances of our children. So, give us some money to settle past grievances and we will use that reousrce tyo A) build it, as Ngai Tahu and Ngati Awa have - very quickly doubled the money the crown gave them. That will give us the basis to imrpove the life chances of our children.

This will pay off in the future, in lower prison costs (fewer Māori criminals) lower health costs (Better Maori health) lower benefit costs (More Māori in employment ) etc etc ..

How do you explain the Maori's who have achieved then? And how should they feel after working as hard as everyone else, if not even harder, to make it in this world, to then have their race identified as one that needs extra help?

[Banditbandit]

Phew ... so much anger and hatred ... is it any wonder that some of our young peopel hate you right back?

I'll just say that I, personally, have worked for everything I have and never taken a cent of treaty settlement or other monies ... I have not received any benefit of any kind since the late 1970s ... for three months after leaving uni ... I own my own home and pay a mortgage ... I don't owe anyone any money (except the bank for the mortage).

So all the personal attacks are way off the mark ... you may say they are not personal attacks - but they are framed in the second person - and I read them as aimed at me. If they are not meant that way, then many of you need to learn to moderate your language ... 'cause I'm pretty pissed off with some of you right now (and some of you I will have met on the road and enjoyed your brief company - you have no idea who's on this end of the keyboard ... )

Anyways - I'm on the road for the next six days (Yahooo ...) so I might respond when I get back ... sometime next week ... the anger will disappear about 30 seconds after I start the bike ... coffee, cigarette and I'm gone ...

[MSTRS:Me]

bike ... coffee, cigarette ...

Ah. The 3 great vices. A great leveller, eh?

[R-Soul]

If we look at the life chances of children, sure, children in rich families have more and better life chances than children in poor families. Children with poor life chances tend to end up in jail, as addicts, poor educational outcomes, low-paid jobs, unemployment, etc etc ..

Now, Māori children generally have fewer and poorer life chances than Pākehā children. Many of them end up exactly as I described above - in jail, unemployed etc etc ...

Seriously? You believe that? No wonder Maoris have entitlement attitude!

Poor kids end up in jail, unemployed etc because they have uncaring parents that dont wrok as hard as they can to motivate ther kids to perform, don't give them good guidance and are pretty lazy themselves - which is why they are poor in the first place. Maori kids are disadvantaged not because of lack of money - but because of lack of moral, ethical and intellectual guidance. The see their role models behaving badly, and learn to take up the role. No amount of handouts is going to solve that -in fact they will make it worse- Only good and decent moral, ethical and intellectual leadership will help that.

Funny how it keeps coming back that doesnt it - there is just a deafening silence from the (supposed) REAL Maori leaders? A serious leadership vacuum. Are there really universally respected Maori leaders? Or are Maori just fragmented, disjointed packs of rabble that take a chance for handouts whenever they can get them? I just call things as I see them from my limited stay here.

The way I see it, Maori kids (at least the minority that we are bitching about) have the opportunity to go to school (for free FFS), to study, to obtain bursaries, learn trades, whatever. Same as everybody else. Its not like Apartheid when they were legally prevented from going to schools/getting jobs. WTF else do they expect? To be given companies? NZ schooling is great in general - certainly better than most around the world.

They have equal opportunities to learn- and that is all anybody can ask for. They just have to compete for jobs on an equal basis after that. Like everybody else. They just choose not to take the opportunities before them. And then blame it all on historical imbalances. Relative to (most of) the rest of the world, they have had a pretty bloody easy time of it.

There are balck people that grew up in tin shacks on the outskirts of "white suburbs" in Apartheid South Africa, with no food in their bellies for days on end, no running water, and studying by candle light. Yet they still succeeded in their studies, some obtained bursaries or scolarships, and made a better life for themselves. Why? Because their parents understood what was required, how important education was, and cared enough to make them understand. And did what they could to support them.

Where there is a will, there is a way. But there seems to not be much will going around this side.

This Maori blame game is a cop out.

[admenk]

Oh well, we did quite well with over 15 pages of fairly friendly, well reasoned debate, arguments and discussions, before we got to the universal fall back position of "let's just post abuse"

[Bald Eagle]

We are not looking at equality, but at Equity - a slightly different thing.

A convenient difference - a bit like an NZQA mark out of a hundred that's not a percentage then is it ?

[admenk]

There are balck people that grew up in tin shacks on the outskirts of "white suburbs" in Apartheid South Africa, with no food in their bellies for days on end, no running water, and studying by candle light. Yet they still succeeded in their studies, some obtained bursaries or scolarships, and made a better life for themselves. Why? Because their parents understood what was required, how important education was, and cared enough to make them understand. And did what they could to support them.

I suspect that an awful lot of them are still poor though. I hear what you're saying, but If hard work and determination were all that was needed, there wouldn't be billions in this world living in poverty. Most of them probably work a lot harder than I ever will, and really want to better themselves, but never will. Maybe a lot of people out there didn't get the opportunities that we did. What we make of our lives is influenced by a whole load of different things, some of them unfortunatly out of our control.

[R-Soul]

I suspect that an awful lot of them are still poor though. I hear what you're saying, but If hard work and determination were all that was needed, there wouldn't be billions in this world living in poverty. Most of them probably work a lot harder than I ever will, and really want to better themselves, but never will. Maybe a lot of people out there didn't get the opportunities that we did. What we make of our lives is influenced by a whole load of different things, some of them unfortunatly out of our control.

All I am saying is that NZ DOES offer opportunities- pretty much universally, and free to the poorest- to those who are willing to take them. How much more opportunities do people want? In NZ, you have to duck to prevent opportunities from smacking you in the face FFS!

If the SA government offered $10k payments to teaching students like they did here, the next day they would be gone. People walk around for 6 months from industrial zone to industrial zone, asking for jobs, and being unsuccessful. People actually die of hunger on the street there! A Port Elizabeth based manufacturing company let it be known that they would be hiring people for 100 new production line jobs, and the next day they something likke 20k people waiting outside the factory.


I have no sympathy for "poor whites" in South Africa at this stage. If they could not get off their asses and do something for themselves after 30 years of preferential treatment and job reservation, its because they did not want to take the opportunities presented. It is the duty of each parent to put themselves into a situation wher they can put their kids into a better situation, or die trying.

[Paul in NZ]

Phew ... so much anger and hatred ... is it any wonder that some of our young peopel hate you right back?...

Yeah - where did that come from? It was going quite well up till thennn

Anyways - I'm on the road for the next six days (Yahooo ...) so I might respond when I get back ... sometime next week ... the anger will disappear about 30 seconds after I start the bike ... coffee, cigarette and I'm gone ...

Have a great ride my friend - you have certainly earnt it. I've really enjoyed reading the stuff you have written. We may not agree 100% but you have argued your end like a gentleman and with respect I have to say well done and thank you. If you ever stand for public office, I'd bloody vote for you!

Good onya!

[SMOKEU]

I have no sympathy for "poor whites" in South Africa at this stage. If they could not get off their asses and do something for themselves after 30 years of preferential treatment and job reservation, its because they did not want to take the opportunities presented. It is the duty of each parent to put themselves into a situation wher they can put their kids into a better situation, or die trying.

I'm South African and the kaffirs there get preferential treatment over whites these days. There are very few job opportunities there for anyone, regardless of race if they don't have the right qualifications.