Motorcycle Safety Advisory Council (Ex Motorcycle Safety Levy Establishment Group)

[NONONO]

I noticed that Kiwibiker forum is for all bikers so that is why I am here.

I'm on record when I was an official at the Ministry of Transport and subsequent to leaving and still as of recently and will for ever and a day reject the notion that motor biking is 18 times more dangerous. Yes we are more vulnerable if something goes wrong. The notion that it is dangerous irritates the hell out of me. It implies I and you and any one else shouldn't be riding a motorbike. That just aint gonna happen. We'll ride and we should do so without being unfairly penalised. But while we have the levy in place I’d to think we can heavily influence what it is used for.

As to the AA's position on the levy - yeah that was the tin top fraternity talking. It surprised the AA head office that there are at least 14000 of its members (and I think this is very conservative) that own motorbikes. It is my aim to ram that point home and get the AA more in tune with a wider set of road users. It might make me unpopular at times but I'm used to that.

You guys might not agree with me and what I am doing - sure that's your right to do so. I'll give as good as I get, I'm no shrinking violet.

I am where I am because of my experience and skills and I intend to continue to work to improve the lot of those of us who chose to ride motorbikes. I don't expect you all to agree with my methods. It is easy to sit on the corner and criticise, I'm getting off my butt to do something about it.

And at least I'm fronting up to read your views. Interesting and quite a varied bunch of views at that!

I hope to see some of you on your bikes on the road...

No it's not FAIR ENOUGH. That's the problem.
Maybe I have this completely wrong, if so I apologize.
Are you the AA ministerial appointee to the MSAC?

[Katman]

Are you the AA ministerial appointee to the MSAC?

I think we've established the fact that MrKiwi is the AA representative on the MCSAC panel.

[NONONO]

Which takes me back to the questions I posed at the start of this bloody thread.
Who is representing who? In what capacity? And should they be getting paid?

Seems MrKiwi is an AA REPRESENTATIVE on the MSAC (formerly the Motorcycle Safety Levy Establishment Group), yet he does not represent the AA official line????
Nobody seems to be REPRESENTING anyone, in any official organizational capacity.
StonY is NOT representing BRONZ, rather he is representative of what BRONZ thinks.
MrKiwi is not representing the AA, rather he is representative of what he believes the motorcycling members of the AA want.

Just like the mental gymnastics needed to oppose the levy hikes BUT support the MSL, it needs some amazing ability to be a representative without a mandate from, or responsibility to, those you presume to represent.

Kin head hurts

[Bassmatt]

Mr Kiwi, are you required to report on the meetings to anyone in the AA?

[riffer]

FFS dudes start listening.

There are a bunch of people on the MCSAC who have been hand-picked by the Minister of ACC, Nick Smith.

These people have been picked from various organisations because the Minister believed they represented a good cross-section of the New Zealand motorcycling publc.

Everyone is there on their own personal merits.

Not because they represent an organisation. But because of who the individual is.

Their organisations face double-scrutiny if they make a submission because of this.

THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY.

Capiche?

[Katman]

It would be nice to think that each member on the panel represents the views of their organisation. (Even nicer if all those organisation's views were aligned - it would certainly make for a very strong platform).

In reality though, the panel have been appointed to oversee the spending of funds set aside for motorcycle safety initiatives - they're not there to formulate government policy.

[nosebleed]

... It surprised the AA head office that there are at least 14000 of its members (and I think this is very conservative) that own motorbikes...

This may or may not have come about when pre-Bikoi the AA were making anti-motorcycling press releases, and members here were cancelling their AA memberships to demonstrate their disgust.

At the time the responses from the call-centre drones were apparently quite blase.
There's threads in here somewhere.

[Bassmatt]

FFS dudes start listening.

There are a bunch of people on the MCSAC who have been hand-picked by the Minister of ACC, Nick Smith.

These people have been picked from various organisations because the Minister believed they represented a good cross-section of the New Zealand motorcycling publc.

Everyone is there on their own personal merits.

Not because they represent an organisation. But because of who the individual is.

Their organisations face double-scrutiny if they make a submission because of this.

THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY.

Capiche?

So there are people on the council who are not part of any organisation?
I thought Mr Kiwi had been appointed after lobbying by AA?

[Katman]

Nick Smith must be laughing his arse off at the moment watching all this constant bickering.

A conspiracy theorist might almost imagine he'd planned it that way.

[riffer]

So there are people on the council who are not part of any organisation?
I thought Mr Kiwi had been appointed after lobbying by AA?

He appears to be the exception that proofs the rule. Do remember at the end of the day the Minister has the right to do what he bloody well likes. We gave him that prerogative when we elected his party to Government.

Shooting the messenger is never an effective way of controlling communication.

[MSTRS:Me]

FFS dudes start listening.

There are a bunch of people on the MCSAC who have been hand-picked by the Minister of ACC, Nick Smith.

These people have been picked from various organisations because the Minister believed they represented a good cross-section of the New Zealand motorcycling publc.

Everyone is there on their own personal merits.

Not because they represent an organisation. But because of who the individual is.

Their organisations face double-scrutiny if they make a submission because of this.

THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY.

Capiche?

Sorry Riffer...perhaps they are there as motorcyclists, but it is because of their association with various organisations that they were in a position to be chosen. Otherwise, why aren't KM and myself on the panel? Or indeed Jim2? Etc.

[NONONO]

What Riffer is saying is that NO ONE is Representing ANY organisation. Only their own views, backed by their knowledge of the issues.
That nice, motorcycle friendly fking numbskull of a minister picked the council members himself.
FFS!
Their is NO conspiracy, however, there is CENSORSHIP.

[riffer]

Nick Smith must be laughing his arse off at the moment watching all this constant bickering.

A conspiracy theorist might almost imagine he'd planned it that way.

Indeed he does appear rather Machiavellian doesn't he? Just on the surface though. Deep down he's probably a right prick.

[riffer]

What Riffer is saying is that NO ONE is Representing ANY organisation. Only their own views, backed by their knowledge of the issues.
That nice, motorcycle friendly fking numbskull of a minister picked the council members himself.
FFS!
Their is NO conspiracy, however, there is CENSORSHIP.

Now you are finally getting it!

Exactly. And this is the Minister's right. As voted by the NZ public.

Democracy at work. An elected two-party dictatorship.

[nosebleed]

What Riffer is saying is that NO ONE is Representing ANY organisation. Only their own views, backed by their knowledge of the issues.
That nice, motorcycle friendly fking numbskull of a minister picked the council members himself.
FFS!
Their is NO conspiracy, however, there is CENSORSHIP.

Unless they were appointed as a result of direct lobbying by the AA. The ONLY organisation to have any influence here it seems.