A bit of banter between flatties

[Whynot]

Does your mate also tell you that you dont need 1000cc on NZ roads?

you don't ?????

[pritch]

800cc Moto Gp Bikes carry more corner speed than the old 1000cc Moto Gp Bikes did.

That's the impression I had too. And it's doubtful if it's because they have bigger better tyres or better suspension. There have been recent improvements in suspension but the 800s were cornering quicker virtually from day one.

BIKE did one of those winter time space filling discussions about the best cornering bike ever and a Buell won that too. Such articles are rather more intended to start arguments than end them though.

[tigertim20]

HAHA need? i think any reasonable and sane person would say there's no need for litrebikes but they are a hell of a lot of fun

lies!! LIES!! it is ABSOLUTELY required. a must for commuting too . . .
If you have it, Youll use it. . .

That's the impression I had too. And it's doubtful if it's because they have bigger better tyres or better suspension. There have been recent improvements in suspension but the 800s were cornering quicker virtually from day one.

BIKE did one of those winter time space filling discussions about the best cornering bike ever and a Buell won that too. Such articles are rather more intended to start arguments than end them though.

I was reading an article a few months back, about the evolution of moto gp. they pointed out how fast the 500cc strokers were, compared to the 990cc 4 strokes. It went on to explain that there was a period of about ten years starting somewhere in the 90's where MOST of the development was performed on suspension, tyres and frames, because thed got to the point the engines were out performing the peripheral components...
The 675 would have benefitted from these years of dedicated advancement, the mc22 would have been nefore tha time.

But I digress, If I remember correctly, after the 2007 engine capacity restrictions on the moto GP bikes, even the teams couldnt really explain the anomoly of the 800s being quicker than the 990's, I also beleive that they found the 800's outperformed the thous in the straights too. I may be wrong, but pretty sure I read that somewhere.

Its really more about taking a bike through a road that is suited to it better. Some roads are just fucki boring on a 250, and some roads are awkaward on a thou

[onearmedbandit]

800cc Moto Gp Bikes carry more corner speed than the old 1000cc Moto Gp Bikes did.

Ha, no one is debating that lighter bikes of a similar spec will hold higher corner speeds, we've all watched MotoGP too. However a 1990 CBR250 vs a 2011 Daytona is hardly like comparing a 990 MotoGP bike vs a 800..........

[Skinon]

Yea the whole reason i chose these bikes too, is i have a mc22 and my dad has a 675 daytona. Went for a ride to cardrona today for my first long ride, was fucking excellent! Took his daytona for a hoon aswell. HOLY fuck it is fast i couldn't imagine a busa or litre bike.... Actually understand now when people say a cbr250rr is slow....

But really the consensus is that 90% of the time the daytona would have it... right? i gotta mc chicken combo on the line guys i need a definitive answer!

[davebullet]

800cc Moto Gp Bikes carry more corner speed than the old 1000cc Moto Gp Bikes did.

Yeah - bring back the 500cc 2 smokers!

[davebullet]

I think onearmedbandit summed it up.

Did you specify any criteria for your corner? Sounds like a really tight corner / hairpin. The cbr250rr gets the nod. Larger corner / favourable camber - the Daytona.

So it depends on the theoretical corner.....

[HenryDorsetCase]

I was just having a bit of banter with the ol' flat mate... He's been riding for years and owned a few sweet bikes, i am realitively new to actually riding bikes, but have always loved them for there sheer power, and thrill 'givingness' (you know what i mean...). So have kept up with the newest bikes, and technology as i looove gadgets

Anyway he reckon'd you could get a stock standard but with awesome tires, mc22 cbr250rr round a corner faster then a same spec 08 daytona 675. Assuming the corner is the same radius. He reckons you would go round faster because the bike is smaller/lighter and the 250 still has a decent little wack of power, you'd be able to go round the corner quicker....

I think, because the 675 is far more powerful and able to get it's power down more
efficiently using newer suspension and geometery, it would still be able to smoke a mc22 around the same corner...

Anyway what do you think?

are you talking about time spent "in the corner" i.e. from some point arbitrarily defined as "Corner entry" and some point arbitrarily defined as "corner exit" the least time spent between those two points wins?

I remember a Kevin Cameron article about this recently. He was focussed on lap times, and why lap times between (say) a 600 superstock and a 1000 Superbike were so close, but they had quite different cornering styles. Basically the superbike went in straight, did all its braking in a straight line, dumped it in, stood it up as soon as possible, and used its 200hp+ to drive out the corner. Basically "squaring it off". the lighter, less powerful bike took a very different line, more classic, with sweeping entry, high corner speed, and swooping exit. At their slowest point, the big bike was actually travelling more slowly than the smaller bike, but the acceleration out was what made the big bike faster.

I am pretty sure the comparison was either between 250s and 990 Motogp, but it may have been between 800 and 990cc MotoGp..

And I could be talking out my arse: Ive had a couple of glasses of wine ....

I do remember something, and I'm sure it was fascinating.

[Skinon]

are you talking about time spent "in the corner" i.e. from some point arbitrarily defined as "Corner entry" and some point arbitrarily defined as "corner exit" the least time spent between those two points wins?

I remember a Kevin Cameron article about this recently. He was focussed on lap times, and why lap times between (say) a 600 superstock and a 1000 Superbike were so close, but they had quite different cornering styles. Basically the superbike went in straight, did all its braking in a straight line, dumped it in, stood it up as soon as possible, and used its 200hp+ to drive out the corner. Basically "squaring it off". the lighter, less powerful bike took a very different line, more classic, with sweeping entry, high corner speed, and swooping exit. At their slowest point, the big bike was actually travelling more slowly than the smaller bike, but the acceleration out was what made the big bike faster.

I am pretty sure the comparison was either between 250s and 990 Motogp, but it may have been between 800 and 990cc MotoGp..

And I could be talking out my arse: Ive had a couple of glasses of wine ....

I do remember something, and I'm sure it was fascinating.

Hmmm yea its surprising that the 675 wouldn't walk away in all situations, i sorta thought the weight disadvantage wouldnt be that much to make a difference between 20 years of suspension/chassis development and 80 more horse...

Ha 'I do remember something, and I'm sure it was fascinating.' fuck i do that all the time excellent quote!!

[Mully]

you don't ?????

You need at least 1400, IMHO.

[Smifffy]

You need at least 1400, IMHO.

given your sig I would have expected you to say that 1000 was too much, and 900 was ideal....

[Metastable]

Good banter topic.... the truth is that the biggest difference is going to be the fellow riding the bike. However, in terms of science if you have two identical bikes except one weighs more than the other, the lighter bike will go around the corner quicker because there is less Centripetal force. That is why a 125gp bike carries more mid corner speed than anything out there.

However, comparing a CBR250RR and a 675 Daytona.... that's tough, there are so many factors such as suspension, ground clearance, weight (is there really much difference?), etc... At the end of the day, the fastest bike assuming they are both all sorted out on a real world conditions is the bike that has the rider that takes the corner at the higher speed, either due to being a bit more of a risk taker or more skilled or both. I mean, how many people are on the edge of traction when they are riding on the street? I know I'm pretty far from it. So the answer really depends who is riding.

[Banditbandit]

you don't ?????

Any sane person will tell you that probably 650cc is ample on New Zealand roads. Mine goes past 200 klicks ... handles well, carries loads, etc etc ... so what do you need more for ? and logically, you'd have to agree

On the other hand - my biker soul NEEDS my 1250 as well ...

[R-Soul]

800cc Moto Gp Bikes carry more corner speed than the old 1000cc Moto Gp Bikes did.

thats because force= massx acceleration.

for teh same sideways acceleration (caused by a certain speed on a certain radius), tehheavier bike will have more force acting on it in a corner, to push it out. It will reach the traction limits (the countering force) quicker.

[bogan]

should have remembered this sooner, but this thread, blatantly copied from hawkgtforum.com explains the fuck out of it