National slashing bureaucratic jobs

[shrub]

So the public services all provide good value for money?


Don't bother, since it's my money I'll decide.

You might be surprised how efficient and well run most of them are - the "all government departments are inefficient and poorly run" is a myth that has it's roots in a world long gone. Kind of like "all harley Davidson motorcycles are unreliable and vibrate" used to be true in the 70s but not any more. I work almost entirely with private companies and almost all of them have varying levels of internal inefficiencies, even lean and dynamic companies. Where these inefficiencies are "managed" by downsizing (a nice way of sacking people) the company without exception ends up worse off than before because they don't lose the dross - they lose the good people who can easily get a job elsewhere, service quality drops (and that is easily measured these days), customer satisfaction diminshes which results in customer migration.

If I was King of this fine land and had all power and authority, I wouldn't use the slasher approach, but would work closely with the most talented people in various government departments to lift delivery standards and expand the range and depth of services delivered. It's a processs that works well.

[Toaster]

Maybe it'll be one that actually generates revenue.

The police have a recruitment drive on....

[Toaster]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...-65-job-losses

Saving us up to $10million... or so they say.

Good shit though, exactly what I was hoping the government was going to do, now I want to see much more

Cutbacks to save money huh? Okay - lets see our MPs in Government all take a pay freeze for the next 5 years and no new limos.

Who agrees?

[superman]

Cutbacks to save money huh? Okay - lets see our MPs in Government all take a pay freeze for the next 5 years and no new limos.

Who agrees?

Our government is way too big for our population size. Redundancies are in order.

[wingnutt]

Yeah, sounds great in theory, streamlining public service waste etc.

However, that's 65 people who now need to find a new job and may be the main wage earner for their family. I'm not saying that jobs should be kept for the sake of it, but in my experience, Government "streamlining" often just cuts jobs that aren't in the public eye, not necesserily one's that don't need doing. It may well be that the remaining staff now just have an increased workload, while the Government boasts about the savings they've made coming up to an election. But then again, I am a cynic where Governments are concerned !

yeh they also push people sideways and call the job a new name, so on paper, they have cancelled one job, but say nothing about the new one created.

yeh, I'm afraid I'm way past trusting what politicians say.

[avgas]

Why cut the wings off a duck when its the head that dictates its stupidity?

[Ocean1]

If I was King of this fine land and had all power and authority, I wouldn't use the slasher approach, but would work closely with the most talented people in various government departments to lift delivery standards and expand the range and depth of services delivered. It's a processs that works well.

Surprised? I work with a few myself, some produce valuable work. Most produce nothing of any commercial value. Don’t like the word commercial as applied to the public service? Fine, if they can’t point to quantifiable value they can do their work for free.

All large organisations lose efficiency over time. The reason the slasher approach doesn't do what people want in fixing that is exactly as you suggest, the cream floats off to better pastures and the dross digs in for grim death.

So rather than pretend that you can make silk purses out of the lazy and the stupid why don't we change employment law so that employees can get paid what they're worth. That way you get to keep the valuable ones and the dross doesn't bleed the organisation white. Anathema to the unions, true but then they never pretended to know how to make things work, just how to equitably fuck up everyone.

[shrub]

Surprised? I work with a few myself, some produce valuable work. Most produce nothing of any commercial value. Don’t like the word commercial as applied to the public service? Fine, if they can’t point to quantifiable value they can do their work for free.

All large organisations lose efficiency over time. The reason the slasher approach doesn't do what people want in fixing that is exactly as you suggest, the cream floats off to better pastures and the dross digs in for grim death.

So rather than pretend that you can make silk purses out of the lazy and the stupid why don't we change employment law so that employees can get paid what they're worth. That way you get to keep the valuable ones and the dross doesn't bleed the organisation white. Anathema to the unions, true but then they never pretended to know how to make things work, just how to equitably fuck up everyone.

You're not an accountant are you? To quote the immortal Oscar Wilde, people who know the price of everything and the value of nothing. How do you value someone's work? By what it will sell for? In that case Justin Bieber has more value as a musician than (say) Chris Knox.

The value of much work cannot be easily quantfied, especially the kind of work that goes into maintaining a civil society - is a police officer worth more than a teacher? And should we reward the police officer with a high arrest rate more than the police officer who prevents young people from going off the rails? Should the teacher in a high decile school who produces lots of university graduates be paid more than the teacher in a low decile school who gets kids reading?

I agree that the trade union movement of the 70s was ultimately destructive, but what has replaced it has been equally destructive. I just hope that we will find a balance one day.

[Number One]

So rather than pretend that you can make silk purses out of the lazy and the stupid why don't we change employment law so that employees can get paid what they're worth. That way you get to keep the valuable ones and the dross doesn't bleed the organisation white.

LOL oooo if only. The problem is that in some PS organisations it's the DROSS at the top, lining the way for all their drossy mates to join them up there.

The number of times I have seen poor performers (managers) that should have been exited instead be given promotions and payrises to 'shift their negative impact' around organisations makes me sick...apparently there is a code of conduct for the PS that protects against this - whatever!

I once worked for a CE who recruited one of his own Dep Secs, outside of the process. It turned out that this person was a regular at his home dinner table...wives were thick as theives and the kids all close too. Everyone knew it was dodgy and it completely undermined the official recruitment process. I was tempted to let some of the 'doomed to be unsuccessful' hopefuls in on it so they could request an investigation into the appointment that was made...but I needed that job at the time.

[saxet]

LOL oooo if only. The problem is that in some PS organisations it's the DROSS at the top, lining the way for all their drossy mates to join them up there.

The number of times I have seen poor performers (managers) that should have been exited instead be given promotions and payrises to 'shift their negative impact' around organisations makes me sick...apparently there is a code of conduct for the PS that protects against this - whatever!

I once worked for a CE who recruited one of his own Dep Secs, outside of the process. It turned out that this person was a regular at his home dinner table...wives were thick as theives and the kids all close too. Everyone knew it was dodgy and it completely undermined the official recruitment process. I was tempted to let some of the 'doomed to be unsuccessful' hopefuls in on it so they could request an investigation into the appointment that was made...but I needed that job at the time.

In my experience this occurs regularly in private companies also.

[Number One]

In my experience this occurs regularly in private companies also.

Indeed it does (especially in IT) however it's supposed to NOT happen in the PS

[Ocean1]

You're not an accountant are you? To quote the immortal Oscar Wilde, people who know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

No. But you're close with your reference, however dear old uncle Oscar was a wastrel and a spendthrift, hardly one to point any fiscal digits.

How do you value someone's work? By what it will sell for? In that case Justin Bieber has more value as a musician than (say) Chris Knox.

The value of much work cannot be easily quantified....

It can if you don’t misrepresent what you’re selling. Justin isn’t selling his musical talents, is he? So comparing him to someone who is selling his musical talents is meaningless innit? Any work can be easily valued by asking the market what it’s worth.

Stab in the dark, here. What’s money? Define it for me. Where does it come from? It’s worth fuck all physically nowadays, it simply represents something. What?

[Ocean1]

LOL oooo if only. The problem is that in some PS organisations it's the DROSS at the top,

I didn't suggest otherwise. In fact dross is literally a waste by-product of steel production that floats on top of the crucible.

If you want to understand the mechanism behind that google “Dunning – Kruger”.

[shrub]

No. But you're close with your reference, however dear old uncle Oscar was a wastrel and a spendthrift, hardly one to point any fiscal digits.

Yes, he didn't make a lot of money, own expansive properties or run a cotton mill. If he had done any of those the world would probably be no better off and few people would even know his name; instead he gave the world some of the finest writing of his era and today people are still reading his work with delight and becoming the richer for it.

It can if you don’t misrepresent what you’re selling. Justin isn’t selling his musical talents, is he? So comparing him to someone who is selling his musical talents is meaningless innit? Any work can be easily valued by asking the market what it’s worth.

he's not selling anything. The marketers (the men and women who control the market) have made the market desire what Justin has to offer because the people who pay them told them to. And that's where the whole free market theory collapses, there is no free market. The market is manipulated and controlled by some incredibly clever and very well resourced men and women who tell the market what it wants, and how much it is willing to pay for something. Ever wondered why Harley Davidsons are more expensive and more sought after than better bikes? The marketers have convinced the market to pay more money for them than an M109R

Stab in the dark, here. What’s money? Define it for me. Where does it come from? It’s worth fuck all physically nowadays, it simply represents something. What?

Buggered if I know. It's a construct that has little real meaning these days.

[Ocean1]

Yes, he didn't make a lot of money, own expansive properties or run a cotton mill. If he had done any of those the world would probably be no better off and few people would even know his name; instead he gave the world some of the finest writing of his era and today people are still reading his work with delight and becoming the richer for it.

In fact he made quite a bit, the value of the Bard was recognise then as it is now. Sometimes nowadays you don’t even have to die to break even.

he's not selling anything. The marketers (the men and women who control the market) have made the market desire what Justin has to offer because the people who pay them told them to. And that's where the whole free market theory collapses, there is no free market. The market is manipulated and controlled by some incredibly clever and very well resourced men and women who tell the market what it wants, and how much it is willing to pay for something. Ever wondered why Harley Davidsons are more expensive and more sought after than better bikes? The marketers have convinced the market to pay more money for them than an M109R

Thought so, a conspiracy theorist. News: there’s been shysters longer than recorded history. They don’t generate revenue, they just shuffle it around.

Buggered if I know. It's a construct that has little real meaning these days.

It’s a unit of value. Simple as that.