Motorcycle Safety Advisory Council (Ex Motorcycle Safety Levy Establishment Group)

[avgas]

If we got our shit together and stopped falling off so often we could hit them with some unrefutable ammo.

The ball's in our court.

Yes and No.
We have ripped apart every bullshit stat they have chucked at us.......and yet still everything thing went ahead as planned for them.

If we were the screw them over, we have to make the rest of NZ think they are getting screwed. Not that we are hard done by.
At the end of the day, there are numbers of people whom blatantly don't like us..........regardless of how we ride.

It will be impossible to convince them that we are safe. Riding safe only keeps us alive. They literally don't give a fuck about us, and never have.

[Katman]

We have ripped apart every bullshit stat they have chucked at us.......and yet still everything thing went ahead as planned for them.

What percentage of motorcycle accidents do you imagine are avoidable?

I imagine it's shitloads.

Showing a massive downturn in those stats will see us gain unquestionable public support.

[Mom]

Yes and No.
We have ripped apart every bullshit stat they have chucked at us.......and yet still everything thing went ahead as planned for them.

We also have people who purport to represent us bikers up close and personal with the PTB and us poor folk on the outside must accept that "they "represent us. No matter how much these "representatives" protest to the contrary, they accept what has happened and will work alongside the PTB to get the best outcome for us.

The best outcome in a lot of minds is nothing like the thieves of the day say is best.

[bogan]

What percentage of motorcycle accidents do you imagine are avoidable?

I imagine it's shitloads.

Showing a massive downturn in those stats will see us gain unquestionable public support.

Two different issues; yes there are too many easily avoidable accidents, and yes TPTB are hiding behind bullshit stats to bully us off the road. No reason why we can't change both.

[Katman]

Two different issues; yes there are too many easily avoidable accidents, and yes TPTB are hiding behind bullshit stats to bully us off the road. No reason why we can't change both.

First you need public support for the second.

[bogan]

You need public support for the second.

Or a big enough stick!

[NONONO]

First you need public support for the second.

Again, nonsense.
The 2 big issues at the time of the ACC proposals to hike the levies were, rego and the provision of counseling for rape victims (anyone remember the absolute disgust on Smiths face at the yacht club when he refused to take the petition from Rape Crisis?).
The provision of counseling was made so discriminatory it became impossible to obtain. Then suddenly, WITHOUT the massive public outcry Katman believes is needed for anything to change) it was reinstated.
Why?
Patient, persistent lobbying by Rape Crisis and a few poorly reported, but well planned actions, by Rape Crisis supporters.

[Katman]

The provision of counseling was made so discriminatory it became impossible to obtain. Then suddenly, WITHOUT the massive public outcry Katman believes is needed for anything to change) it was reinstated.

I imagine that the government simply realised that they were on a losing wicket with that one as they would have virtually no support from the public with cries of "Yeah, those rape victims deserve everything they get".

Motorcyclists don't have the same sympathetic public ear as rape victims do.

[NONONO]

Thats what you imagine is it?
Sympathetic ear?
Oh lord.

[MSTRS:Me]

We also have people who purport to represent us bikers up close and personal with the PTB and us poor folk on the outside must accept that "they" represent us.

Getting back to 'them'...just how well are they representing us, when they tell us nothing, are apparently under gag orders individually and collectively from saying anything and will be removed from the panel if they do say anything? I'm sure that didn't come from them.
So much for a fund set up for, and run by, bikers, without interference...
Can I hear the echo of BULLSHIT?

[Katman]

Getting back to 'them'...just how well are they representing us,

A damn sight better than the motorcyclists who have gotten us into this mess in the first place.

[MSTRS:Me]

A damn sight better than the motorcyclists who have gotten us into this mess in the first place.

How do you work that out?
They haven't done anything, apart from organise themselves into 'committees'...

[ynot slow]

A damn sight better than the motorcyclists who have gotten us into this mess in the first place.

And up to us motorcyclists to get us out of it(public thinking we're all suicide jockeys)by not crashing by ourselves or perceived that way by media.

And trying to get info as numerous people have tried from said council who are gagged until the powers that be let them speak the corporate words,maybe we're all on a hiding to nothing.

[Usarka]

A damn sight better than the motorcyclists who have gotten us into this mess in the first place.

You do know that TPTB read social media forums eh.

Have you ever considered the possibility that your continual public vocal criticism of bikers is influencing the decision makers?

ps the question is hypothical so don't bother with the arguments - i don't expect you to entertain any possibility of being wrong.

[Pussy]

And up to us motorcyclists to get us out of it(public thinking we're all suicide jockeys)by not crashing by ourselves or perceived that way by media.

That's the crux of it.
A bit of common sense and courtesy would go a VERY long way to improving the motorcycling image.

Edit: And leaving the egos at home.