Keep Wellington's motorcycle parking free - sign the petition!

[cheshirecat]

Its not just running costs. A while ago I had to get to Upper Hutt and back from Seatoun via public transport - it took the best part of 4 hours having just missed the train by a couple of mins. I could see why the train was almost empty and the whole experince was like some endless plodding rambling dream from the 60's. Getting across town involves 3 buses and an all day bus pass is more expensive than an all day central London pass.
Welly is just a small town and doesn't really have a traffic problem by my standards but it has the red tape and compliance costs of a mega burocracy and they make traffic a problem. I been to plenty of places where the density is far higher and they just get on with it -it self sorts itself out.

WCC have just put up car parking by a $1 so $5 an hour so cover their own made deficit so thats about $4 mil out of the Welly enconomy disappearing into the drain of WCC's coffers - There's a recession on but they don't seem to realise what is. I mean what is their contribution to reducing overhead and costs?

[Eyegasm]

I find that a delusional way of measuring the costs. The overall running costs are significantly higher than just petrol. You only need a valve adjustment service and you've just spent 3 months worth of petrol.

So I live in Wainuiomata (Yeah I know poor me)

Public transport costs
$170 Per month (Month Pass, Bus and Train) $2040 Per annum.
1Hr-1 1/2 Hrs travel time

Bike Cost
50km Return trip per day, 13000km Per annum
Service every 4K, $250-300. $750-900 Per annum
Petrol 400km/17l @ $2.20 per litre = $1215.50 Per annum
Tyres Conti Road attack 2, 2 sets $1200 (est)
+Parking costs $600 (Yes I pay to park)
20-30 Minutes travel time.

So bike costs are more expensive and I didn't cover everything needed.
$2040 (Public Transport) compared to $3900+ (Bike)

But the time saved has much more value than the difference in costs.

[James Deuce]

Its not just running costs.

For some people. Even if I was well enough to ride I couldn't afford to run a bike at present. I have very few issues with public transport. I think the infrequent hiccups get blown out of proportion.

[James Deuce]

So I live in Wainuiomata (Yeah I know poor me)

Public transport costs
$170 Per month (Month Pass, Bus and Train) $2040 Per annum.
1Hr-1 1/2 Hrs travel time

Bike Cost
50km Return trip per day, 13000km Per annum
Service every 4K, $250-300. $750-900 Per annum
Petrol 400km/17l @ $2.20 per litre = $1215.50 Per annum
Tyres Conti Road attack 2, 2 sets $1200 (est)
+Parking costs $600 (Yes I pay to park)
20-30 Minutes travel time.

So bike costs are more expensive and I didn't cover everything needed.
$2040 (Public Transport) compared to $3900+ (Bike)

But the time saved has much more value than the difference in costs.

I understand your priorities. Mine are different.

I think your costs are still light. I used to spend between $4500 and $7000 a year to run a bike, depending what types of service popped up on the schedule. I spend about $3500 on my Ka. I spend $2500 on bus and train and that's a flat cost. I don't get surprise charges on public transport except when they have a breakdown and then don't clip your ticket.

[Bald Eagle]

For some people. Even if I was well enough to ride I couldn't afford to run a bike at present. I have very few issues with public transport. I think the infrequent hiccups get blown out of proportion.

I don't think the stats for their own performance indicators ( % of trains arriving./departing within +/- 3 minutes of timetable ) would qualify as an infrequent hiccup.

[Bald Eagle]

Transmetros own info here for Feburary.

Performance by line

Johnsonville Line – 82% on time
Kapiti Line – 77% on time
Upper Hutt Line – 83% on time
Wairarapa Line – 73% on time

[bogan]

How come it's gone to bikes vs public transportation, are they going to replace the bike parks with bus stops or something? When discussing on street parking surely it comes down to bikes vs cars? or from the WCCs point of view, do we want more cars or bikes?

[Eyegasm]

I think your costs are still light. I used to spend between $4500 and $7000 a year to run a bike, depending what types of service popped up on the schedule.

I'm pretty sure those costs are calculated right.

I honestly couldn't tell you what the running cost would be if I only used my bike for
getting to and from work. Considering I do about 40,000Km a year, Bike gets a service almost monthly and new tyres every 3 months.

Wow... Actually calculating how much I spend on riding... I should really cut down my riding time...

Nah, Fuck that for a joke...

[Bald Eagle]

Johnsonville line has met their 95% target 5 months out of the last 12 Feb - to Feb .
The other lines have never met target at anytime in the last 12 months.

Forget the cost they are excluded as an option because their unreliability puts your employment at risk.

[James Deuce]

Transmetros own info here for Feburary.

Performance by line

Johnsonville Line – 82% on time
Kapiti Line – 77% on time
Upper Hutt Line – 83% on time
Wairarapa Line – 73% on time

It doesn't actually worry me in the slightest. I arrive at the train station between 6:15am and 7am, get on a train, work however long I need to, wander to the train station and get the next available train home.

Timetables are for the anal people.

[Bald Eagle]

Timetables are for the anal people.

..and for people whose employer specifies their hours of work.

[Jon Visser]

Hi all,

Some people are still very fired up about something, but I have some difficulty understanding why their frustration is directed at the Council. Sorry for the long post, but some people may actually be interested in understanding the facts rather than perpetuating historical/urban myths.

* Council has already indicated that we are not considering applying fees to the existing "free" spaces, though they may be relocated around the place and could be time-limited to encourage turnover in order to meet rider demand. "Free" on-road parking bays for motorcycles have been around for a lot longer than we have had Pay & Display parking. There will always be parts of the road that cannot be utilised for any other purpose and where there is no demand for casual parking so we have already agreed that there is nothing wrong with allocating such space as unrestricted motorcycle parking (as other similar cities have done). Is this not what you want?

* Council has agreed that some small spaces that can't be used for car parking but can be used for motorcycles will be signposted and marked as such. Many have been done already and more have been identified and scheduled to go in. If you check you will find that the total available space is now more like 550 (depending on how people park :-). During the past two years we have added over 20 new bays and only reduced one in size (Mercer St). Does that not prove we deliver what you want?

* Council is currently reviewing the Traffic Bylaw and one of the items being reviewed is the one restricting motorcycles from using Pay & Display spaces. Reversing this could address the shortage of casual parking spaces, taking pressure off the other bays and allowing people greater freedom to select their preferred mode of transport into the city. If we simply make it up to the riders to ensure that they securely display their receipt in a prominent place (or get ticketed) I'm sure they can come up with some clever ways of doing so. In fact, I will even try to have the Bylaw modified to state that two (or more?) motorcycles chained together in the same space can be covered by the same receipt (thereby maximising space utilisation and minimisng costs to riders). This will all go out for public consultation so everyone can have their say - a report is tentatively scheduled to go to Council in May 2011. Is this not what you have asked for?

* There will always be people that assume everything is to do with money. I can happily and confidently say that this particular issue has nothing at all to do with "revenue gathering" and totally to do with the fair allocation of a limited resource that is in high demand by different parts of the community - kerbside parking space. Money could be considered a "tool" to manage turnover (fees or fines). Therefore money may be a key factor for riders, who need to consider the relative costs & amenities for the different modes of transport they can use. But the Council has no significant financial interests in this matter. For example, if a few spaces were converted from motorcycle to P&D car parking, the extra revenue less the costs to make the change (and deal with the likely protests that would ensue :-) would be trivial in the big scheme of things. Also, if metered motorcycle parking was introduced, the additional revenue less the costs to introduce and administer this would be negligible compared to the trouble that this would create. It would therefore make infinitely more sense for the Council to achieve the desired outcome (more effective and fair utilisation of space) through different tools such as allowing motorcycles to use existing P&D spaces, time-restricting spaces and encouraging riders to use off-road facilities instead. Does that not make more sense?

So what are people upset about? Or is it just a few individuals that don't understand/believe that the Council is actually working with riders to address their concerns?

Riders need to understand that they are competing with increasing numbers of other riders and drivers for access to limited on-road space. Riders should see the Council as the "referee", not the opponent. The game is working out where best each party should park to carry out their desired activity, within a very constrained playing field, and then applying the 3Es (engineering, education & enforcement) to get all the parties to play safely & fairly with each other. Even in sports, each team may only have a certain number of players on the field (even though there is plenty of room for more :-). What can you do to "win"? Understand the constraints of the playing field, then look at the needs of your competitors and find a "better" solution for them...

Kind regards,

Jon Visser
Infrastructure Performance Manager
Wellington City Council

[Maha]

'So what are people upset about? Or is it just a few individuals that don't understand/believe that the Council is actually working with riders to address their concerns'?


The motorcycling community band wagon is extremely long and the guns should notbe placed at such regular intervals.
Great post Jon Visser.

[James Deuce]

So what are people upset about? Or is it just a few individuals that don't understand/believe that the Council is actually working with riders to address their concerns?

This bit. So far in the last couple of years Central Government have screwed us whilst our "representatives" have claimed that they haven't. I see no reason for Local Government not to continue the trend, especially as there are no strong drivers for Local Government to provide anything for motorcyclists and our "representatives" seem to have done a great deal of talking with no outcome other than a slight reduction in the number of "free" motorcycle parks and the advent of limited time motorcycle parks which simply don't get used, combined with some dubious charging by some parking companies in regard to motorcycles.

[Swoop]

Pipe bombs most drastic. Hacksaws much more effective on meters.

This is far easier...

Silent and deadly to any parking meter.

Yup. Thanks for reminding me to buy more yellow paint :-)

Isn't it remarkable what a little paint and a home-made stencil can do.