Is this morally wrong?

[Brett]

There is no monopoly present. The Consumer is free to shop around and choose their options. So I guess I don't have a problem with it.

Also you are only considering the gross mark-up on a low value item. The net realisable income is likely to be much lower.

Same mark up applies to low cast as high cost items, only used the $100 phone as an example. The only reason the realised income might be lower is because of bad debt.

[p.dath]

The only reason the realised income might be lower is because of bad debt.

And

• Building lease
• Employment expenses
• Tax
• Insurance
• Accountancy costs
• Advertising
• Rates
• Power
• Vehicle expenses

Actually, I could probably go on quite a bit longer, but you get the point. The net markup will be much lower the the gross markup due to all the expenses of running the business.

[avgas]

I struggle with the concept that anyone would be happy paying 4 time what something is able to be otherwise purchased for simply for the convenience of having it NOW.

Take any house price, say you put down 10% deposit - paying the remainder over 30 years.
Do a simple calculation exercise.....
How much in $ did it cost you for the house.

Admittedly a house COULD go up in value in that time. But its the same principal - only difference is that the banks are quite happy to wait for the money.

Same thing could be applied to car/bike loans etc
ALWAYS LOOK AT THE FINAL FIGURE OF TOTAL PAID......IT MAY PUT YOU OFF THE PURCHASE!!!
I did this recently for a friend, she had saved her 10% deposit and wanted to by a 400K home, I told her to look at a 200K home instead. We did the maths.
@200K, she had paid a final total of 290K, and had it paid off in half the time. At 400K she would take 25+ years to pay off.......and it better be a Million dollar home by the time she had paid it off
She found a nice place for $260K.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Take any house price, say you put down 10% deposit - paying the remainder over 30 years.
Do a simple calculation exercise.....
How much in $ did it cost you for the house.

Admittedly a house COULD go up in value in that time. But its the same principal - only difference is that the banks are quite happy to wait for the money.

Same thing could be applied to car/bike loans etc
ALWAYS LOOK AT THE FINAL FIGURE OF TOTAL PAID......IT MAY PUT YOU OFF THE PURCHASE!!!
I did this recently for a friend, she had saved her 10% deposit and wanted to by a 400K home, I told her to look at a 200K home instead. We did the maths.
@200K, she had paid a final total of 290K, and had it paid off in half the time. At 400K she would take 25+ years to pay off.......and it better be a Million dollar home by the time she had paid it off
She found a nice place for $260K.

again, Banks are mandated to disclose that stuff when you take out a loan. I love showing that part to the customers when they're signing up.

[Smifffy]

I HP'd the bike and have had two more summers of riding than I would have had if I had waited to save the outright price (assuming I would have had the discipline to reach the final sum.)

If everything turned to crap for me financially they could always repo the bike, but they'll never take away that last run I did over the Kaimais.

I knew exactly how much extra I was paying for the privilege of having it NOW. That was a price I was definitely prepared to pay.

For the record, I'm not expecting to default or have it repoed.

If I were to get some consumer goods and start to offer 'easy terms' at a margin much less than the OP example, and what point would profit margin go from simply business to morally questionable?

As for cell phones and ipods etc, meh. I'm more disgusted at the gouging that goes on for basics by the likes of Fonterra & Telescum.

[Winston001]

Business is explotative - that's the nature of Capitalism ...

People are exploitative - that's the nature of Socialism.

[Winston001]

Take any house price, say you put down 10% deposit - paying the remainder over 30 years.
Do a simple calculation exercise.....
How much in $ did it cost you for the house...

I know you are correct in theory but in practice people pay their mortgages much quicker than the full term. The average mortgage used to be paid off in seven years, possibly longer today.

The other element to remember is everybody has to live somewhere. You either pay rent or a mortgage. Its inescapable.

By contrast, most of us can survive without a vehicle, stereo, plasma tv etc. Borrowing money to satisfy want rather than need is the downfall of many budgets. Boring I know.

[steve_t]

I know you are correct in theory but in practice people pay their mortgages much quicker than the full term. The average mortgage used to be paid off in seven years, possibly longer today.

The other element to remember is everybody has to live somewhere. You either pay rent or a mortgage. Its inescapable.

By contrast, most of us can survive without a vehicle, stereo, plasma tv etc. Borrowing money to satisfy want rather than need is the downfall of many budgets. Boring I know.

Is that right? I'd been keen to see stats on mortgage repayment timeframes. I don't think I'll get mine sorted in 7 years. Also, so many people "upgrade" their houses before their mortgage is paid off and take out new mortgages so I guess the stats would be skewed. What age do people buy their first houses at these days? 30's? 40's? I don't know that many mid30-mid40's people that are freehold. It seems to be a while after that though most would say that they'd have paid off their mortgages much faster had their kids not been so expensive

[Smifffy]

Is that right? I'd been keen to see stats on mortgage repayment timeframes. I don't think I'll get mine sorted in 7 years. Also, so many people "upgrade" their houses before their mortgage is paid off and take out new mortgages so I guess the stats would be skewed. What age do people buy their first houses at these days? 30's? 40's? I don't know that many mid30-mid40's people that are freehold. It seems to be a while after that though most would say that they'd have paid off their mortgages much faster had their kids not been so expensive

I can't afford to have kids, since I have to pay to bring up everyone else's....

[steve_t]

I can't afford to have kids, since I have to pay to bring up everyone else's....

Getting a bit OT but did u see that article about that surrogate lady?!

http://news.msn.co.nz/article/823651...-who-kept-baby

[FJRider]

I can't afford to have kids, since I have to pay to bring up everyone else's....

Work harder then ... there's more coming ...

Bringing up the kids is one thing ... paying for the mothers smokes ...

[Smifffy]

Work harder then ... there's more coming ...

Bringing up the kids is one thing ... paying for the mothers smokes ...

The truth is that working harder will not increase my income at all. Those days ended with the last millennium.

[Brett]

And

• Building lease
• Employment expenses
• Tax
• Insurance
• Accountancy costs
• Advertising
• Rates
• Power
• Vehicle expenses

Actually, I could probably go on quite a bit longer, but you get the point. The net markup will be much lower the the gross markup due to all the expenses of running the business.

Well, the income is realised, it is just offest against the businesses costs, but yes, get what you are saying. Everybody is entitled to make a profit, no arguements there.

[FJRider]

The truth is that working harder will not increase my income at all. Those days ended with the last millennium.

Then go on a benefit too ... and we could bring you up too ...

[Indiana_Jones]

I can't afford to have kids, since I have to pay to bring up everyone else's....

Getting a bit OT

Not really, gonna have to agree with Smifffy.

And if a dumb arse boon wants to buy a phone on HP then that's all good with me, as long as I don't have to pick up the bill....but that's wishful thinking.

Some things make sense to put on HP if you need them, like a house or car/bike. Problem with my generation (generation Y-bother) is that they fucking want that 50" LCD TV now, not in a month or two, like it's their fucking birth right, cunts.

-Indy