Eleven Billion

[motor_mayhem]

maybe those who are crapping on about how hard done by they are over those evil students need to engage their own fucken brains for a second.

1. What National are currently planning won't actually punish those overseas who aren't paying their loans off, only those here who are actually paying off their student loan which are actually the people you want here because they are paying tax to this country rather than another one.

2. You take away the supply of people who are qualified to do certain tasks then it will become much more expensive and more difficult (waiting lists/have to travel to other locations) to get those tasks done. I guarantee you'd be here bitching if the cost of services for example doctors, dentists, accountants and lawyers suddenly tripled.

3. You would create a more defined line between the well off and the not well off as someone coming from a not so well of family/background would know that if they studied the cost of the loan + interest would keep them indebted for much longer compared to someone who was able to loan interest free or be gifted the money from family or friends.

FTR my student loan (for BSc in Comp Sci) was about 23k at the end of 2005, and will be all paid off at the end of this year.

The only thing I would agree that there are some relatively pointless degrees being done though but at least most of the following aren't offered in NZ Uni's:

David Beckham studies – Staffordshire University, UK
Parapsychology – various colleges
Doctorate of Philosophy in Ufology – Melbourne University
The Phallus – Occidental College
Surfing Studies – Plymouth / Melbourne
Philosophy – various colleges
Queer Musicology – UCLA
Star Trek – Georgetown University in Washington
Golf Management – University of Birmingham / Florida Gulf Coast University
Art History – various colleges

From http://www.toptenz.net/to-10-useless...es-degrees.php

Ok so thats seven then...
Now if the 85,000 overseas dwellers that are not on here, can find in the hearts (or wallets) to do the right thing and kick start some sort of repayment, maybe that would shame those still living here to do the same, once the news got out that is.

Are you serious? You were not aware that when you have a studen loan and live here and work, the repayments come out of your wage automatically? You can't live and work here and just avoid ird.

[Smifffy]

Found this: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/kerre-wood...ectid=10716706

Have to say I agree with a lot of it.

Another system of funding education that the hand-wringers have overlooked is that of companies running graduate or cadet programs.

A way back when, some would come along in the early stages of a tertiary education and pick some students that they thought showed promise, the ones that had a few social skills, but didn't party away the entire semester. They would pick up some of the tab for fees & books, and provide employment for the student during the holidays. Usually they would have an entry level job waiting upon graduation. Sometimes the really big places would have less jobs available at the end of the year than students they sponsored, and encouraged a bit more competition.

Strangely under that system, the employers never really complained that the degrees weren't suitable.

Of course the accountants and HR managers have scrapped most of those programs as too expensive, and now bemoan the lack of quality candidates, the high mobility of gen y and the cost of recruitment and training.

[FJRider]

Of course the accountants and HR managers have scrapped most of those programs as too expensive, and now bemoan the lack of quality candidates, the high mobility of gen y and the cost of recruitment and training.

The same can (was) be said about apprenticeship's ....

[Ocean1]

The same can (was) be said about apprenticeship's ....

It was. With some justification and much the same reason. The wee darlings all fucked off for a prolonged OE just when they began to be worth having around. To add insult to injury the bastards all went to work for the private sector when they eventually dragged their sorry arses back home. So the MOW, NZR, NZED et al said fukit, if privately owned industry wants 'em they can train them themselves.

Private industry immediately failed to train anyone, of course, we went 20 years with fuck all apprenticeships. When they were eventually driven by the lack of tradesmen to begrudgingly admit they had no choice but to contribute they decided that what they really wanted wasn't those old fashioned trades at all. No, they wanted "Maintenance and Diagnostics Technicians". It's the single most eloquent synopsys of the problem: by that stage industrial “HR” departments had no idea what the trades do, where they're most effectively employed.

We're over the hump, now, there’s some clever young guys out there, but there's a huge hole in the national skill set in the middle-aged technical disciplines, the guys that used to be the engine of what used to be a largely technically literate nation.

[FJRider]

Most trades in the private sector ... electricians,plumbers, engineering shops,painters,builders ... even motorcycle shops ... ALL had an apprentice lurking ... doing all the shit jobs that had to be done.

And when the belt tighening began ... few were taken on. Employers got qualified staff by PAYING more (company vehicle to use etc) untill those qualified staff retired (or died) and then started advertising overseas. (English speaking Doctors are a novelty in most departments, in most provincial hospitals in NZ now)

Skilled labourers are the preferred label/option now ... and indeed a lot are very skilled. Just haven't got "the bit of paper" that once was the prerequisite of a "good" job.

[rainman]

maybe those who are crapping on about how hard done by they are over those evil students need to engage their own fucken brains for a second.

Good luck with that. Remember most of the smart ones have left.

Golf Management – University of Birmingham / Florida Gulf Coast University

I first read that as Goff Management - we could use some of that!

You can't live and work here and just avoid ird.

Have to say that's the question I've had all the way through this thread. I have a SL and am self-employed, but still there's no way to avoid paying the loan back (other than leave the country). I earn over the threshold so IRD has told me I need to start making payments. I imagine they'll take a rather dim view if I don't pay them - they have ways and means, as we all know, and they do know where I live...

How do those crying for changes to the scheme think that people avoid payments, other than going overseas or doing a really useless degree and being unemployable? (Even in the second case, the repayment threshold is $19k - that's about 27 hours a week at minimum wage...burger flipping could probably cover that).

Here's a thought: maybe the solution is actually to fix the crap wages in NZ.

We're over the hump, now, there’s some clever young guys out there, but there's a huge hole in the national skill set in the middle-aged technical disciplines, the guys that used to be the engine of what used to be a largely technically literate nation.

Explains a lot, thanks.

[Brian d marge]

It was. With some justification and much the same reason. The wee darlings all fucked off for a prolonged OE just when they began to be worth having around. To add insult to injury the bastards all went to work for the private sector when they eventually dragged their sorry arses back home. So the MOW, NZR, NZED et al said fukit, if privately owned industry wants 'em they can train them themselves.

Private industry immediately failed to train anyone, of course, we went 20 years with fuck all apprenticeships. When they were eventually driven by the lack of tradesmen to begrudgingly admit they had no choice but to contribute they decided that what they really wanted wasn't those old fashioned trades at all. No, they wanted "Maintenance and Diagnostics Technicians". It's the single most eloquent synopsys of the problem: by that stage industrial “HR” departments had no idea what the trades do, where they're most effectively employed.

We're over the hump, now, there’s some clever young guys out there, but there's a huge hole in the national skill set in the middle-aged technical disciplines, the guys that used to be the engine of what used to be a largely technically literate nation.

Well said
but the private sector did give some a good kick up the bum. I see it here Jobs for life , life security ... produces Jack and shyte
Stephen

[Brett]

pssst, he's better at it than you are

That's not really all that hard...

[Shadows]

Here's a thought: maybe the solution is actually to fix the crap wages in NZ.

Sure. As soon as you bring us better monkeys.

[Oblivion]

Sure. As soon as you bring us better monkeys.

I take offence to that comment. Now, where's my banana?

[rainman]

Sure. As soon as you bring us better monkeys.

Monkeys are only a small part of the problem. Raising productivity hasn't raised wages.

[p.dath]

Sure. As soon as you bring us better monkeys.

We'll need better monkey trainers.

[cbgb]

love that "Course related costs" part of the SL... no questions asked handout - paid my rego and got me a brilliant couple pairs of jeans uh "for the course".

[Delerium]

love that "Course related costs" part of the SL... no questions asked handout - paid my rego and got me a brilliant couple pairs of jeans uh "for the course".

Which was added to your loan and you will end up paying back (if you havent already) and possibly with interest if you havent paid it by the time you graduate.

Not majoring in finance I hope.

[superman]

Which was added to your loan and you will end up paying back (if you havent already) and possibly with interest if you havent paid it by the time you graduate.

Not majoring in finance I hope.

That would be silly, you pay it back in $500 lumps and the government pays back another 10% on top. So really the loan is -10%

Which is why when people tell me they saved up to pay for uni and aren't getting student loans I laugh exhuberantly.