General bitch (oops, I mean discussion) about bikers thread

[Hitcher]

I've had some "accidents". Some have been avoidable due to poor option taking on my part at the time.

I've had a couple that have been a bit different. Again, arguably, one of those I could have mitigated better but its circumstances completely took me by surprise and only after considerable hindsight have I been able to contemplate alternative options that may have served me better. Who knows if any of those options would have helped. It's not every day somebody reverses a RAV4 at you in a passing lane.

My last off has taken some psychological toll, largely due to a complete absence of context due to about six hours of complete memory loss prior and patches of loss through the preceding 18 hours. Trying to rationalise all of that following a massive accident-induced concussion and a couple of days post-accident in an induced coma has also been interesting. Fortunately brain haemorrages aren't that common and even less common is having one while riding a motorcycle on a back country road that's going to take emergency services nearly an hour to attend and a bit longer than that to get you to intensive care afterwards.

Add all of that up and I should be dead. If not dead, I should at least be dribbling vegetable material. Medical experts have been reasonably clear on that. I'm not, thanks to some extraordinary luck, amazing people and good fortune.

So was it avoidable? I could have done it at home in bed I guess. But then again I could have been driving a car with passengers on a busy road.

I think about this quite a bit.

The thing that troubles me most is realising that once I'm dead, from my point of view it will be as though I've never lived. I already knew that, but hadn't made the connection in such a real manner. Somehow I may have made a difference to those I've met, worked with, played with, lived with, loved, and been loved by in return. Hopefully a positive difference. Not that that will matter a jot to me once I'm dead.

However I now better understand and appreciate the joy of living. Not just me being alive but also everybody else I know who is. Sharing this living experience business is a priviledge.

I know that many things make me happy, including motorcycling and that, within reason, why should I deny myself those pleasures? My off wasn't caused by an Aprilia Shiver.

One thing that's certain is that all of this living business will end, usually not at a time of our choosing. Let's plan for it as best we can and enjoy every nanosecond as best we are able.

I didn't mean to type all of this. I was going to make a comment about the amount of time that's wasted by Kiwi Biker members over-analysing "accidents", the causes of these and the role that bikers may have in their own demise. For some strange reason I wrote something else.

I think it's time I went to bed.

[Katman]

I was going to make a comment about the amount of time that's wasted by Kiwi Biker members over-analysing "accidents", the causes of these and the role that bikers may have in their own demise.

Not only their own demise - but also the demise of motorcycling in New Zealand.

[ital916]

I personally don't care if other motorcyclists kill themselves. After a while, one realises that you can tell others what they should be doing, but they will still do what the fuck they want and a lot of the time that is ride like the pack of morons they are. So, you just give up. However, if a two wheeled motorist requires assistance and isn't a complete asshat then it shall be rendered. Like the young girl on a scooter today getting harassed by traffic. I decided to ride behind her and kindly tell the other traffic to fuck off.

Anyway, that is going off topic. Bottom line, there are many motorcyclists. Some want to live, some think they want to live. Those that truly do will be careful and avoid avoidable accidents. Those that think they do but ride like morons might end up going through the pearly gates backwards in a fireball. Should we care. Nah I dont think so.

[Grubber]

Post of the year.

Why thankyou! Still give a red though i see...hehehe.

Surely for Katman, the best way to screw is to put his hand up.

Oh now this is good...wish i had thought of that.

Probably a bit off topic....

Is it possible to be so focused on not crashing that I'm creating myself more risk of doing so?
This wet riding season has given me the shyts more than any other so far. I'm not sure if ignorance got me through the last few winters with no real problems or what but the last month or so the exact the same situations are triggering a bigger reaction. I'm guessing its just a phase but its not a safe phase...Its almost like everything is new and I'm being hyper sensative to what I perceive is a hazzard.

Ok, back on topic...carry on the conversation.

Hmmm..interesting thought. Could be a lot of signifigance in this. Often think that if you over think a problem it can be seen to increase in size to the point you are unable to solve it.

There is a normal?

Who bloody know's what Katman thinks is normal.

I am what you would probably call a reckless rider. I have had a couple crashes on the road when I was riding pretty bloody fast. I put my hand up straight away and waived off any sympathy.

I have also had a couple crashes when I was taking it easy, (and I mean going VERY slow) on the same roads I normally punt on. I cannot for the life of me explain why I fell off on these occasions. One of which I had a group of bikers who normally wouldn't see which way I went asking themselves "what the fuck are you doing Drew? You're in the way".

I admit fault for all of my crashes, had I done things differently they simply wouldn't have happened. What do you suggest I do about the times I've gone down without the slightest idea of why Katman? Hmmm, what can I learn if I don't know what I did wrong? What the fuck could I say about them at all? "Sorry, I know it was my fault, we're just waitin for Steve to arrive to tell me how so".

Accidents do happen, there are unavoidable crashes, and your message delivery is fuckin shithouse.

Peace out.

Ye fuckn ha. Nailed it in one. Not saying i condone the reckless bit but have to say you at least put your hand up and recognize your faults. Also you are right about Katman. Delivery is shit and far too persistent.

Think harder.

Go fuck ya self.
Dude i have had 2 accidents in 40 years. 1 was my own fault (too quick for corner) the other was a dum arse lady in a 4 x 4. Now who's gonna pester the shit out of her and all those like her so this doesn't happen again. Not fuckin Katman that's for sure, cause he's too busy pestering the shit out of all of us.

[oneofsix]

Ye fuckn ha. Nailed it in one. Not saying i condone the reckless bit but have to say you at least put your hand up and recognize your faults. Also you are right about Katman. Delivery is shit and far too persistent.

Dude i have had 2 accidents in 40 years. 1 was my own fault (too quick for corner) the other was a dum arse lady in a 4 x 4. Now who's gonna pester the shit out of her and all those like her so this doesn't happen again. Not fuckin Katman that's for sure, cause he's too busy pestering the shit out of all of us.

She wasn't in mantrol ... oh hold on she - MANtrol, guess that's a miss then

Generally people do put their hand up when they screw up or will accept politely delivered advice because we all want to survive and enjoy the ride. Sometimes enjoying the ride gets wrapped, like the description in another thread of a rider pulling a wheelie past traffic over a blind hill but these types of riders are not often on this site.
What can we do? Discuss our screw-ups and other events openly and without fear of being victimised and discuss what needs to be done by others to improve our and general rode safety like changing the use of WRBs.

[Maha]

Accidents are avoidable, that is why they are called acidents, they happens accidentally, not on purpose. If they happened on purpose they would be an on purpose....as in ''oh look, I've have an on purpose''

[Spearfish]

Drew- the off's you have had you say you understand what happened with the "spirited" riding but cant figure out what or why with the slow off's?

I cant word this any better so it could sound offensive...

Just for curiosity, are you "self taught", read the odd mag or book, talked to a few mates quicker but mostly learning on your own by trial and error?

[Spearfish]

Here is my low velocity nearly off'd event...

Other than filtering to the front of the que (I was the que) what's the solution to being rear ended while stationary at red lights?

Not be there or be in a car?... probably

This event unlike some is not a bike specific crash

[oneofsix]

Here is my low velocity nearly off'd event...

Other than filtering to the front of the que (I was the que) what's the solution to being rear ended while stationary at red lights?

Not be there or be in a car?... probably

This event unlike some is not a bike specific crash

this is where hindsight can be a real bastard, or real fun, depending on which side of the fence you sit.
Did you have your foot on the brake so your brake light still shone?
Were you watching your mirrors so you saw the other vehicle coming?
Did you have an escape route planned? being as you were at the front I guess not as the only escape route would have been to encroach on the intersection, i.e. run the red.
See - hindsight fun. Not much serious help though and even worse if I had delivered it in an accusing fashion.

[MSTRS:Me]

I have departed many a race track and can't say i have been inundated with idiots. Couple here and there but not a multitude by any means.

Extrapolate! You occupy, and can observe, one reasonably small part of the road. And then only one of the roads leading away from the event.
The wonder is that most of them get away with it. Most of the time.

So a blatant Katman baiting thread, good to see it wasn't wasted.

Is that what you think I started this thread for?

You don't think I have agonized over why my shiny pride and joy turned into a scratched up hack?
Think about this. It was avoidable yes. It was not however, possible to determine cause. Therefore fault, blame and accountability are moot.

There is always a cause. Sometimes what that cause was, is not possible to determine for sure. Zukin's death was one of those. SCU noted 8 possible scenarios - none of which quite fitted well enough to be sure.

But sometimes "shit happens".

Yes, it does.

... dum arse lady in a 4 x 4. Now who's gonna pester the shit out of her and all those like her so this doesn't happen again. Not fuckin Katman that's for sure, cause he's too busy pestering the shit out of all of us.

He can't get to her though, can he?

[Katman]

Should we care. Nah I dont think so.

How very short-sighted.

How's this for a scenario?

The government increase the cost of motorcycling to the point where suddenly it's not such an attractive transport alternative and the number of motorcyclists getting into riding start to decrease (sound familiar?). At the same time a number of existing motorcyclists who are not sufficiently passionate about it choose to sell their bikes so our numbers start declining (I'm seeing it happening already). Then the next cost increase repeats the process. Before long there will not be enough motorcyclists out there to have a shit show of standing up to the powers that be. Then it's only a matter of time before they try to remove us completely.

The only way to fight the process is to remove the governments ammunition against us.

[MSTRS:Me]

The only way to fight the process is to remove the governments ammunition against us.

Can we remove the appeal that attracts the idiot brigade?

[oneofsix]

Can we remove the appeal that attracts the idiot brigade?

no to both. We can't remove the appeal to the idiots nor remove the government ammunition. There are idiots in all walks of life, even sensible people can do idiotic things therefore it can't be done. A lot of the government ammunition is fabrication and even if you remove that which they are currently using they will just find something else. Basically we as a bikers community have to tell the government to stick it because they are being unfair and address safer riding as a mentoring process.

[bogan]

this is where hindsight can be a real bastard, or real fun, depending on which side of the fence you sit.
Did you have your foot on the brake so your brake light still shone?
Were you watching your mirrors so you saw the other vehicle coming?
Did you have an escape route planned? being as you were at the front I guess not as the only escape route would have been to encroach on the intersection, i.e. run the red.
See - hindsight fun. Not much serious help though and even worse if I had delivered it in an accusing fashion.

I tend to watch the mirrors a bit and flash my brake light if someone is coming up, there bugger all else to do at the time so why not?

[Katman]

I have departed many a race track and can't say i have been inundated with idiots. Couple here and there but not a multitude by any means.

Clearly you haven't traveled through the Paraparas on the way to or from the Boxing Day races, or for that matter, the roads to or from the Paeroa street races.