Should Katman shut the fuck up?

[superman]

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend with my life your right to say it"

Sums it up pretty much.

[Katman]

Actually it wasn't the U-turning cop, it was the U-turning woman in the 4wd

What, you're upset because I suggested that the intention of a u-turning car will usually be preceded/indicated by the front wheels turning to the right and that it's our responsibility to notice those sorts of things?

Fuck me, you're really clutching at straws.

[merv]

I'm all for freedom of speech and hate the mods dicking with things so stay here man and keep saying your stuff.

Katman, as for bikers that crash into cars and other things is it a case of those that are too busy looking around to see who is looking at them hoping they look cool, than those that actually concentrate on what they are doing and look where they are going?

[Katman]

Katman, as for bikers that crash into cars and other things is it a case of those that are too busy looking around to see who is looking at them hoping they look cool, than those that actually concentrate on what they are doing and look where they are going?

I believe that 99% of motorcycle accidents fall into one (or more) of three categories. Inexperience, inattention or stupidity.

We can do plenty to address all three of those categories.

Egotism may well play a part but hey, even I know I look good on my bike.

[Bald Eagle]

Glad you left the 1% loophole for God to act in

[Ronin]

If there were no Katman who would fill the void?

If you have a void that needs filling then it would be DB.

[Ronin]

It pains me to say NO. I have been assured that although he may be a cunt, in real life he is a good cunt.

I sometimes loath the way the message is delivered but on the whole, the message is correct.

[Maha]

Why a proviso? The poll asks if he should shut up or not. Everyone knows his message, and the way he delivers it - it hasn't changed.Not hard to judge what we are voting on in this case.

I don't remember but I can guess what his view on Daniel's incident was, did it align with the coroner's report?

I dont know 'why the provisio', those that voted no are throwing one in just to cover thier arse for later posts I guess?

As for the Coroner's report on the Daniel accident. It is out, as to why it is not on here? I will leave that up the many to figure out.

[BoristheBiter]

If you have a void that needs filling then it would be DB.

And no one wants DB filling anyones void.

[shrub]

I believe that 99% of motorcycle accidents fall into one (or more) of three categories. Inexperience, inattention or stupidity.

We can do plenty to address all three of those categories.

Egotism may well play a part but hey, even I know I look good on my bike.

You're talking two very different issues here. If I bin my bike the odds are pretty high that it was stupidity - not paying attention is stupidity, and stupidity is voluntary and completely under the riders control; however inexperience is not.

Johnny Noob wobbling down the road on his shiny new 250 may well have been told that car wheels turning means a U turn coming, or all about countersteering etc, but for that kind of stuff to work it has to be an instinctive reaction. At 100 kmh you don't have time to think "OK, this is happening, therefore that is about to happen and I need to....", it has to happen instantly.

And that's where I have a problem with your broken record. If I bin my bike there is a high chance I deserve zero sympathy, but if Johnny Noob bins his bike it's a bit rich saying "it's your fault for not...." because his instincts didn't kick in. Instinctive riding comes from experience, and that is not something that can be imposed or even learnt on a track day. Johnny has to do what I did - get out and ride his bike in all conditions. If he's clever he won't do the shit I did that caused me to crash - ride pissed, ride too fast, ride a poorly maintained bike and it's unlikely he'll ride bikes that have crap brakes and handling like i did.

But even if Johnny is incredibly clever and has a really good bike he is still sharing the roads with retards. You and I survive their stupidity because of our experience, but Johnny doesn't have that, so may well not survive. And that's where I think TPTB need to come down on people that do the stupid shit that is likely to kill or maim Johnny - inattention and inconsideration.

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

A yes from me.

The only effect I can see from the broken record approach is to make others hesitant to post when they do have an accident.

If the rider doesn't post about their crash, due to the unsympathetic slant that now seems to exist on kiwibiker, then how can they or others gain insight from the more experienced members?

Riddle me that.

If the message was changed to "always expect the unexpected" or something similar I'd have no problem with it - but it remains the blunt "you must have fucked up, now admit it".

When I first joined kiwibiker I appreciated the fact that it gave me access to experienced bikers, who could give me tips on what and what not to do.

However, since the ACC debacle a lot of those more experienced riders seem to have become intolerant of other, less experienced riders, and now prefer to condemn rather than assist.

[Spearfish]

You're talking two very different issues here. If I bin my bike the odds are pretty high that it was stupidity - not paying attention is stupidity, and stupidity is voluntary and completely under the riders control; however inexperience is not.

Johnny Noob wobbling down the road on his shiny new 250 may well have been told that car wheels turning means a U turn coming, or all about countersteering etc, but for that kind of stuff to work it has to be an instinctive reaction. At 100 kmh you don't have time to think "OK, this is happening, therefore that is about to happen and I need to....", it has to happen instantly.

And that's where I have a problem with your broken record. If I bin my bike there is a high chance I deserve zero sympathy, but if Johnny Noob bins his bike it's a bit rich saying "it's your fault for not...." because his instincts didn't kick in. Instinctive riding comes from experience, and that is not something that can be imposed or even learnt on a track day. Johnny has to do what I did - get out and ride his bike in all conditions. If he's clever he won't do the shit I did that caused me to crash - ride pissed, ride too fast, ride a poorly maintained bike and it's unlikely he'll ride bikes that have crap brakes and handling like i did.

But even if Johnny is incredibly clever and has a really good bike he is still sharing the roads with retards. You and I survive their stupidity because of our experience, but Johnny doesn't have that, so may well not survive. And that's where I think TPTB need to come down on people that do the stupid shit that is likely to kill or maim Johnny - inattention and inconsideration.

That sparks the debate that maybe us noobs shouldn't be on the road until we are at least as competent as a 6R or better.

[MSTRS:Me]

However, since the ACC debacle a lot of those more experienced riders seem to have become intolerant of other, less experienced riders, and now prefer to condemn rather than assist.

Not entirely fair. Few are the experienced who are intolerant of the less experienced. I'd hazard a guess and say that most would actually put themselves out to help some noob etc - if asked.
Intolerant of someone who crashes and fires shots at every possible cause except themselves...yeah.

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

Not entirely fair. Few are the experienced who are intolerant of the less experienced. I'd hazard a guess and say that most would actually put themselves out to help some noob etc - if asked.
Intolerant of someone who crashes and fires shots at every possible cause except themselves...yeah.

Whichever way you want to colour the message - it is coming across as intolerant and unsympathetic. It will just deter people from posting up a crash.

Also - the message is being delivered, at times, before any denied liability is posted.

Edit - And by message I mean not only Katman's blunt posts but the general slant that is appearing on kiwibiker, towards any crash.

[BoristheBiter]

Whichever way you want to colour the message - it is coming across as intolerant and unsympathetic. It will just deter people from posting up a crash.

Also - the message is being delivered, at times, before any denied liability is posted.

How about if you don't want to be criticized about your crash don't post it up.