General bitch (oops, I mean discussion) about bikers thread

[avgas]

When it starts hitting others in the wallet and starts intruding on others liberties then it very much does become other's business.

Only if they chose to take it up with someone.
However some people will take EVERYTHING up they possibly can - jump and scream until they are blue in the face.
Doesn't change anything though.
That unfortunately is life.

[Grubber]

If an opinion is wrong, can be proved to be wrong, yet the espouser of that opinion persists...then they deserve to be called an idiot.

KM 's message isn't wrong. His opinion on how it should be delivered might be. The poll results seem to say something different tho...


Good for you. About the same track record as me. And possibly KM too...I only really 'know' him on here.

And who says thier opinion is wrong and how can you prove otherwise....on and on it goes.
I know that in 1 crash i had, it was definately NOT my fault. Problem is that KM will come along and make it mine even though he was no where to be found on the day.
Stop trying to say there is always something could have been done, cause it's not always the case. Only thing that could have been done for me was that the woman driving the 4 x 4 stayed home in the kitchen (that should start something new), no ifs buts or maybes. There wasn't one damn thing I could have done, end of fuckin story. the other one was, i simply went to quick into a corner and binned it. MY fault! But i don't need the KM's of this world to explain that to me, i'm already clever enough.
Oh yea, and i don't need anyone going on about this effecting their ACC levies. I paid my dues and some, so i deserve a payback. By the way, i didn't need any ACC anyway so i'm still way in credit.

[Katman]

There wasn't one damn thing I could have done, end of fuckin story.

You need to lose the victim mentality.

[skippa1]

If an opinion is wrong, can be proved to be wrong, yet the espouser of that opinion persists...then they deserve to be called an idiot.Why do so many see motorcycles as disposable toys?


KM 's message isn't wrong. His opinion on how it should be delivered might be. The poll results seem to say something different tho...


Good for you. About the same track record as me. And possibly KM too...I only really 'know' him on here.

Going by your summary, in my book, that clearly labels anyone who says that "there is no such thing as an accident, they are all avoidable," on and on and on,an idiot. Because to quote one of your recent posts,

"Except by not being there in the first place, true accidents (act of god type) are unavoidable. All others fall in the class of avoidable, in so far as the person/s involved make a mistake."

[MSTRS:Me]

Oh yea, and i don't need anyone going on about this effecting their ACC levies.

That's your opinion...

I paid my dues and some, so i deserve a payback.

Would you go have an injury-causing crash? No?
Funny that...

By the way, i didn't need any ACC anyway so i'm still way in credit.

So am I. For the same reason. But a long succession of others having injury crashes means I must pay. And since there's been a lot over the years that needn't have happened, I pay even more. I don't like that.

[R-Soul]

I dont think KM is saying anything at all about fault.

Let me put it to you this way. Take a "groundhog day" situation (but slightly different), where you are forced to repeat the day (or at least the last few seconds of the accident) until you get it right. Otherwise you wake up with amnesia -where you live the same day again - you know that you have an accident that day, but you dont know where and when.

What would you do to prevent that accident (and no smarmy "not ride" remarks - sadly thats what the government's conclusion is)?

ride slower?
look for any telltale signs?
preempt people doing stupid things at every oppportunity?


Whatever you could do to avoid the accident - that is what KM is saying you SHOULD have done in the first place....

Yes it takes a hellvalot of patience, headache inducing paranoia, and riding like a chronic neurotic - but maybe thats what we really should be doing. Look at what the alternatives are. Our kids without parents?

[Swoop]

Someone needs to give them a good kick in the ass.

What has their donkey done to deserve that?

[skippa1]

Given the fact that you said,
"If an opinion is wrong, can be proved to be wrong, yet the espouser of that opinion persists...then they deserve to be called an idiot."

Would it not stand to reason that if a person was to continually say all accidents are avoidable, they would be inviting this label? After all, you clearly have an opinion on that........

Yellow Dog: "FACT: All accidents of any kind are avoidable.
MSTRS: Nope. Except by not being there in the first place, true accidents (act of god type) are unavoidable. "

[skippa1]

I dont think KM is saying anything at all about fault.

Let me put it to you this way. Take a "groundhog day" situation (but slightly different), where you are forced to repeat the day (or at least the last few seconds of the accident) until you get it right. Otherwise you wake up with amnesia -where you live the same day again - you know that you have an accident that day, but you dont know where and when.

What would you do to prevent that accident (and no smarmy "not ride" remarks - sadly thats what the government's conclusion is)?

ride slower?
look for any telltale signs?
preempt people doing stupid things at every oppportunity?


Whatever you could do to avoid the accident - that is what KM is saying you SHOULD have done in the first place....

Yes it takes a hellvalot of patience, headache inducing paranoia, and riding like a chronic neurotic - but maybe thats what we really should be doing. Look at what the alternatives are. Our kids without parents?

Of course, but thats not what he is saying. He says that bikes are toys, we treat them like they are disposable. He says all accidents are avoidable. Where are the constructive bits?.....

[Katman]

Of course, but thats not what he is saying. He says that bikes are toys, we treat them like they are disposable. He says all accidents are avoidable. Where are the constructive bits?.....

I think we've found drongo number 3.

[skippa1]

I think we've found drongo number 3.

youve counted me twice dickhead

By the way, point me to the constructive bit

[MSTRS:Me]

Going by your summary, in my book, that clearly labels anyone who says that "there is no such thing as an accident, they are all avoidable," on and on and on,an idiot. Because to quote one of your recent posts,

"Except by not being there in the first place, true accidents (act of god type) are unavoidable. All others fall in the class of avoidable, in so far as the person/s involved make a mistake."

Aha - I see what you mean. With the below proviso, I stand by what I said.
Some time ago,. we had a thread arguing about what construes an accident, as opposed to a crash.
My contention then, as it is now, is that an accident is not only unintentional, but is utterly unavoidable. ie act of god - at least, almost. One where nobody did anything wrong, but some sort of crash occured anyway. These sort are actually quite rare.

The next sort of accident (a crash) is one where someone does something wrong, and anyone else caught up in it could not have avoided that involvement. Not so rare.

The usual sort of accident (a crash) is even less rare. Someone makes a mistake. Sometimes they are the only one involved, sometimes they involve someone else.

Let's assume for a moment that the someone is a SMIDSY and the someone else is a biker. In that type of accident, the biker who is really on to it, may 'see' what is about to happen and takes steps to avoid it.
With me so far?
KM will have us believe that always the case. And I tend to agree with him. Failure to identify the looming crisis, or missing the clues through not paying attention or simply riding like a cock leaving no escape route/safety buffer are quite common.

[Katman]

youve counted me twice dickhead

You've just been elevated to double drongo status.

You don't understand English and you can't count either.

[Edbear]

You need to lose the victim mentality.

What does that mean? Why do you call it a victim mentality just because someone could not have avoided the accident? If you take my accident as an example, one could correctly say I was a victim. Once the wheels lost traction on the oil which was invisible through the streaming wet windscreen, I was able to avoid crashing into oncoming traffic, managing to spin the van the opposite way. However once that happened I was a mere passenger as the vehicle no longer would respond to any inputs. I crashed. Was that an "Act of God"? I don't think HE hates me that much, somehow... It was an accident by definition. Not caused by anything I was doing wrong, not caused by inattention, not caused by any fault with the vehicle.

Going by your summary, in my book, that clearly labels anyone who says that "there is no such thing as an accident, they are all avoidable," on and on and on,an idiot. Because to quote one of your recent posts,

"Except by not being there in the first place, true accidents (act of god type) are unavoidable. All others fall in the class of avoidable, in so far as the person/s involved make a mistake."

What mistake did I make? If I can find that out I may not do the same again.

[skippa1]

You've just been elevated to double drongo status.

You don't understand English and you can't count either.

Incorrect. I dont understand the ramblings of a womble......or is that a wombles (a double womble) womble, wombles, singular, plural
I guess I was stupid enough to crash so you should expect this confusion