Osama is dead

[avgas]

"In unrelated news Chuck Norris has just returned from a holiday in Pakistan"

His jawline will be in the next plane as it could not all fit on one

[avgas]

I haven't seen any NY Cops, NY Firemen, those who lost family on 9/11

The biggest reality check I had when I went to NY and CT. The people over there are not against Bin Laden etc. They almost expected it, like a tsunami or hurricane. One guy even said to me, "If you poke anyone with stick long enough, they will eventually spin around and smack you in the face".
They were pissed at the Govt for letting things get to that point though. Also many of the conspiracy theorist re:911 are from NYC.

[Paul in NZ]

So maybe rather than accusing the US of invading a sovereign nation to shoot the world's most wanted terrorist in the face, it might be worth asking why the Pakistanis decided to harbor the very person they claim they have been hunting alongside the US and had no knowledge of his whereabouts.

.

Well - to be fair I said entering, not invading....

The point I'm making is that the USA is at a moral crossroads. Its one thing to say you are the white hatted good guys and use words like 'justice' but summary executions are not justice. John Wayne does not cross the desert to shoot the unarmed bad guy, he hauls him off to the 3;10 to Yuma for the judge to shoot him in the head.

Lobbing missiles at gaddafi personally is also a bit 'off' for a white hat when war hasnt been declared... has a sort of not quite cricket whiff to it...

Getting in a flap when all these Arab countries suddenly seem full of younger folks wanting a vote (but not necessarily in favour of the USA) is going to be a BIT problem.

The crossroad is here. War has changed and the old concept of war and rules and the geneva convention etc dont apply. Sooner or later the USA will need to adopt a moral code or define a line they wont cross or they run the risk of being worse than those they are protecting us all from.... Its not inspirational at all....

The USA really needs to find some high moral ground and under Obama I hoped they would. Now that Dr Evil is dead I hope they can find the path...

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

2 down... 1 to go...

[SPman]

The USA really needs to find some high moral ground and under Obama I hoped they would. Now that Dr Evil is dead I hope they can find the path...

Fat chance

Everyone knows the rules don't apply to America. How could they not know? .......


But it doesn't matter, because the US creates the rules on-the-fly; just makes it up as they go along. So, when Bin Laden gets whacked in the latest bloody incident of military gangsterism, no one utters a peep of protest, because everyone knows that the US owns the world and the rest of us are just guests.

[far queue]

... So I'm somewhat bemused about American military capability and their government's ability to get the facts right.

Reminds me of a txt I received a couple of days ago - "US killed Osama Bin Laden - dumb bastard must have disguised himself as a British soldier"

[HenryDorsetCase]

You are fuckin shittin me. Hone is looking at it from the view of Bin Lady's family and his followers. I reckon his retraction is the most insulting thing that Hone has done to date, in my book anyway (not been here long). He should have stuck with his statement instead of bowing to the media perception that he is as bad as Bin Lady (the apology makes him look flakey, not the sentiment)... and all because he understands that some will view BL's departure as a loss. In regards to what I think, I hope Bin Lady died in utter agony and that it took a few hours to get there. He committed some attrocious acts on some very innocent people. But make no mistake. I understand that Bin Lady will be missed by those who knew him both as a person, and by those who believed in what he was doing... and if it is a Maori custom to not speak ill of the dead... at least Hone stuck to 1 of his principles.

he took at least one, more likely several rounds from whatever weapon the SEAL guy was carrying, so, unfortunately a very quick death. They dont become SEALs by being average shots.

[mashman]

he took at least one, more likely several rounds from whatever weapon the SEAL guy was carrying, so, unfortunately a very quick death. They dont become SEALs by being average shots.

I would have thought they'd also be better than average, ahem, interrogators too... guess there were a few million reasons to get it over and done with... hey ho, maybe they'll "try harder" when they capture the next one

[HenryDorsetCase]

I would have thought they'd also be better than average, ahem, interrogators too... guess there were a few million reasons to get it over and done with... hey ho, maybe they'll "try harder" when they capture the next one

time pressure and opportunity I'd guess. they had to land somewhere else, ditch one of the helo's fight their way to where he was, breach walls etc: they were on the ground twice as long as they expected to be and it sounds like faced much stiffer resistance. At the point where they confronted him thats the call the guy made. They did bring the body back with them too. (Ick)

I also saw on the news they bought out a bunch of computers, CD ROMs etc etc. thats gold.

We werent there, we'll never know.

[mashman]

We werent there, we'll never know.

Aye, I don't doubt for a minute that they just walked in there and escorted him from the premises... glad someone at least managed a version of that though .

[Swoop]

The sandstorm in Desert One didn't help either.

Neither did the bus load of locals that showed up.

[Banditbandit]

God MM thats the worst troll i have seen all day.

I did find it funny how Hone said that OBL was fighting for his people when he is a Saudi and fighting a religious war.

I wil comment on that - and other things - I think Osama Bin Laden is a freedom fighter - "One man's terrosist is another man's freedom fighter".

The attack on the World Trade Centre was a political act. The refusal of the USA and others to see it as a polticial act is irrelevent. The fact that Bin Laden is a Saudi is irrelevent. "His people" are the Moselm world - the Islamic world is much more unified than the west realizes - he was fighting for what he beleives to be a just cause. Whether other people see that as a just cause is another issue.

As for John Key saying "murdered 3,000 people" ... how many innocent Iraqis and Afghanis has the US and other "murdered" or are they just "collateral damage"? It's a matter of perception and definition ... and the western world has removed violence as a poltical weapon ... I'm sorry but the rest of the world has not ... they still use violence to support regimes as well as the remove them .. violence is a much-used weapon in poltiical struggles in many many countries.

Following the first Gulf War the USA embargoed Iraq. Children were dying of common diseases easily fixed by cheap medicine, which the USA embargoed because of Saddam Hussein, his cronies and the regime. If I was an Iraqi father and my children died of common diseases because the US embargo meant they didn't get medicine I would probably be angry enough to fly a plane into the World Trade Centre ... AS a commentator said (with surprise and shock in his voice) "Why would they destroy these great symbols of Capitalism?" .. Well Hello ... there's you're answer right there ..

If I was living in Gaza and my wife and new baby about to be born (on the way to hospital because of complications) died in an ambulance at an Israeli checkpoint because the soldiers refused to let the ambulance through the checkpoint and made it wait for six hours I would be angry enough to kill Jews too ...

Ifr a foreign power did not like the Government of New Zealand and invaded to affect "regime change" I would certainly fight back ...

I reckon most of you here in those positions would also become angry and violent ... we are very lucky to live in this country and not have to face those issues.

But coming from the extreme left (unashamedly) I certainly see Bin Laden as a freedom fighter (more of an armchair reviolutionary than an actual fighter .. but the idea's the same).

[BoristheBiter]

I wil comment on that - and other things - I think Osama Bin Laden is a freedom fighter - "One man's terrosist is another man's freedom fighter".

The attack on the World Trade Centre was a political act. The refusal of the USA and others to see it as a polticial act is irrelevent. The fact that Bin Laden is a Saudi is irrelevent. "His people" are the Moselm world - the Islamic world is much more unified than the west realizes - he was fighting for what he beleives to be a just cause. Whether other people see that as a just cause is another issue.

As for John Key saying "murdered 3,000 people" ... how many innocent Iraqis and Afghanis has the US and other "murdered" or are they just "collateral damage"? It's a matter of perception and definition ... and the western world has removed violence as a poltical weapon ... I'm sorry but the rest of the world has not ... they still use violence to support regimes as well as the remove them .. violence is a much-used weapon in poltiical struggles in many many countries.

Following the first Gulf War the USA embargoed Iraq. Children were dying of common diseases easily fixed by cheap medicine, which the USA embargoed because of Saddam Hussein, his cronies and the regime. If I was an Iraqi father and my children died of common diseases because the US embargo meant they didn't get medicine I would probably be angry enough to fly a plane into the World Trade Centre ... AS a commentator said (with surprise and shock in his voice) "Why would they destroy these great symbols of Capitalism?" .. Well Hello ... there's you're answer right there ..

If I was living in Gaza and my wife and new baby about to be born (on the way to hospital because of complications) died in an ambulance at an Israeli checkpoint because the soldiers refused to let the ambulance through the checkpoint and made it wait for six hours I would be angry enough to kill Jews too ...

Ifr a foreign power did not like the Government of New Zealand and invaded to affect "regime change" I would certainly fight back ...

I reckon most of you here in those positions would also become angry and violent ... we are very lucky to live in this country and not have to face those issues.

But coming from the extreme left (unashamedly) I certainly see Bin Laden as a freedom fighter (more of an armchair reviolutionary than an actual fighter .. but the idea's the same).

Sorry all i read was blah blah blah.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Do not underestimate Hone for a moment, he is a very skilled political activist and becoming a very skilled politician.

Consider for a moment the most important attribute a politician needs to be successful.

To stay firmly focussed in the limelight ... "publicity"!

The adage: "The only bad publicity for a politician ... is no publicity".

Hone is the master of milking publicity!

Look at the way he (Hone) took control of the Brash "debate", despite his lack of academic comparison, he absolutely creamed Brash and simply used Sainsbury as if he owned him personally!

Like him or loath him, Hone is here to stay, underestimate him at your peril.

I've got a crew of ex Navy SEALS inbound, he wont be a problem for long.

[HenryDorsetCase]

But coming from the extreme left (unashamedly) I certainly see Bin Laden as a freedom fighter (more of an armchair reviolutionary than an actual fighter .. but the idea's the same).

there's your problems right there:

the first is coming from the extreme left; and the second is equating "Armchair revolutionaries" with "actual fighters"