General bitch (oops, I mean discussion) about bikers thread

[MSTRS:Me]

I don't think it was my arse that yungatart was referring to.

Comprehension. Apparently very difficult for lots of us, eh?

[Ocean1]

How the fuck can you claim any of that?
You have NO IDEA who has taken what message from her experience.

I'd say my claim that freely given, clear analysis is valuable is probably more believable than that uninformed blind insistence that someone take the blame for their accident is all it takes to prevent more.

In the interests of truth, it was I who complained, and I who thanked the district authorities for acting.

Thank you. Genuinely, I'm grateful that you did something practical to make the environment safer.

She is a better rider for having accepted her 'failing' - and for having done something about upskilling, in order to avoid a repetition.

I don't doubt it. I do doubt that manufacturing blame when you know nothing about the circumstances has any value whatsoever.

She has answered that. I will just add my disgust that you could even post such a slimy, distasteful piece of crap.

You, like she chose to misinterpret what was said. I'm sorry you both feel that I've behaved inappropriately but if you read my post with an open mind you'll see there was no ill will associated with it at all.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Comprehension. Apparently very difficult for lots of us, eh?

You excel in PKB's if nothing else

[Gone Burger]

At my request, after much discussion as to how we could make sure others didn't suffer the same fate as me.
Interestingly, a bus driver who rounded the corner soon after me claimed that many a rider had gone down in the same spot, why no one had reported it is beyond me.

Same in my crash. 8 Previous crashes through the same corner in only the past 2 years. I know what I did wrong. I only want signage to go up to assist in helping others to not repeat the mistakes I made which very nearly took my life. At the very least, put a no exit sign on the turn into the road. I have been informed by the police that signs will be in place in the next few months, and I was looking forward to hearing that.

[Ocean1]

PS scatman left a self portrait on my rep page ""

I'm surprised he's go any ammo left...

Comprehension. Apparently very difficult for lots of us, eh?

Glad you've accepted responsibility for your shortcommings.

Now, what are you going to do about improving your skill set?

[MSTRS:Me]

I'd say my claim that freely given, clear analysis is valuable is probably more believable than that uninformed blind insistence that someone take the blame for their accident is all it takes to prevent more.

But 'uninformed blind insistence' is not what KM and myself are doing, is it? Any more than your 'freely given clear analysis is valuable'.
Barring the rare time/s we might have been present at any given crash, when we may or may not have even seen all that happened, we are left being in the position of 'just knowing' that something the rider did, or did not do, contributed to the crash. It isn't blaming them for it, just insisting that since they were there they most likely had a part to play.
We can place blame on the environment, or the weather, or another motorist, but let's face it...if the rider wasn't there too, they wouldn't have come to grief. That is not meant to be flippant - it is just the simple truth.

Your apology is accepted. Like YT, I certainly thought you were implying that I bullied her into making that post. She thought you may also have meant KM.
And I can speak for her on this, because she's standing right next to me!!

[yungatart]

I doubt that is a position that anyone will find themselves in as he would have to extract himself first to make room
Wrong arse...
BTW all credit to you for your approach to your accident. No different to how I or anyone else looks at our own contribution to negative outcomes.

Thank you. You may, but there are lots who don't.

You, like she chose to misinterpret what was said. I'm sorry you both feel that I've behaved inappropriately but if you read my post with an open mind you'll see there was no ill will associated with it at all.

Thank you for your apology. I have read it with an open mind, still don't see it any differently TBH, but I will take you at your word.

Same in my crash. 8 Previous crashes through the same corner in only the past 2 years. I know what I did wrong. I only want signage to go up to assist in helping others to not repeat the mistakes I made which very nearly took my life. At the very least, put a no exit sign on the turn into the road. I have been informed by the police that signs will be in place in the next few months, and I was looking forward to hearing that.

Good on you girl. You can feel rightly proud that you are making a difference for others. Its a pity though, that someone hadn't done that earlier, eh?

[Ocean1]

But 'uninformed blind insistence' is not what KM and myself are doing, is it? Any more than your 'freely given clear analysis is valuable'.

Come on, dude, you know better than that, surely. There’s a world of difference in value between a clear, unambiguous report stating the facts surrounding an incident and the inevitable and pointless shitfight caused by some ill-conditioned busybody who freely admits he knows nothing about the incident declaring that: “Well there must have been SOMETHING you did to cause it”.

Barring the rare time/s we might have been present at any given crash, when we may or may not have even seen all that happened, we are left being in the position of 'just knowing' that something the rider did, or did not do, contributed to the crash. It isn't blaming them for it, just insisting that since they were there they most likely had a part to play.

“Just knowing”? I think your credibility is at an all time low with that one, dude. Of course there’s always something someone could have done, or refrained from doing that would have resulted in a different outcome. Statements to that effect simply serve to identify someone who has an unworkably simplistic grasp of cause and effect.

We can place blame on the environment, or the weather, or another motorist, but let's face it...if the rider wasn't there too, they wouldn't have come to grief. That is not meant to be flippant - it is just the simple truth.

However, by your own example plenty of other riders will eventually be there. And while an improvement in any individual rider’s abilities might contribute to their safety an improvement in an environmental factor will contribute to the safety of many, many more. I note also that you use the word blame quite freely when describing the behaviour of those who you consider reluctant to accept responsibility for their accident, but you’re not happy to use the label to describe your intrusion into their affairs.

Your apology is accepted. Like YT, I certainly thought you were implying that I bullied her into making that post. She thought you may also have meant KM.
And I can speak for her on this, because she's standing right next to me!!

I inferred neither. It had, in fact completely slipped my mind that you were related in any way. You might question some of my motives with impunity, (if little accuracy) but an assertion that I play dirty will not stand.

[Katman]

Come on, dude, you know better than that, surely. There’s a world of difference in value between a clear, unambiguous report stating the facts surrounding an incident and the inevitable and pointless shitfight caused by some ill-conditioned busybody who freely admits he knows nothing about the incident declaring that: “Well there must have been SOMETHING you did to cause it”.

That's not actually what I say though, is it?

My words are more likely to be "I sure there must have been something you could have done to avoid it".

You continue to clutch at straws by trying to put words in my mouth.

Of course there’s always something someone could have done, or refrained from doing that would have resulted in a different outcome.

Yeah, that's more like it.

[Ocean1]

That's not actually what I say though, is it?

My words are more likely to be "I sure there must have been something you could have done to avoid it".

You continue to clutch at straws by trying to put words in my mouth.

I'm pleased at reports that you're attempting to modify your aproach. The fact is both statements have exactly the same meaning. The reason for either aproach is dubious, blame is implicit in both and both are equally innapropriate.

Yeah, that's more like it.

And the other words in my mouth?

Statements to that effect simply serve to identify someone who has an unworkably simplistic grasp of cause and effect.

[Katman]

The fact is both statements have exactly the same meaning.

And still you continue to show your lack of understanding of English.

[MSTRS:Me]

Come on, dude, you know better than that, surely. There’s a world of difference in value between a clear, unambiguous report stating the facts surrounding an incident and the inevitable and pointless shitfight caused by some ill-conditioned busybody who freely admits he knows nothing about the incident declaring that: “Well there must have been SOMETHING you did to cause it”.

The facts are that someone crashed. No doubt there will have been a few contributing factors, and one over-riding reason.

“Just knowing”? I think your credibility is at an all time low with that one, dude. Of course there’s always something someone could have done, or refrained from doing that would have resulted in a different outcome. Statements to that effect simply serve to identify someone who has an unworkably simplistic grasp of cause and effect.

Simplistic or not, any experienced rider will 'just know' there was something that a rider could have, or not, done. You appear to be in agreement with what I said?
Cause and effect may be complex, or simple. The more factors involved in any crash, the more difficult it is to know what the main cause was, but there will be one for sure.

I note also that you use the word blame quite freely when describing the behaviour of those who you consider reluctant to accept responsibility for their accident, but you’re not happy to use the label to describe your intrusion into their affairs.

Responsibility does not necessarily equal blame. "Blame" is your word, not mine. I thought you understood context...in so much as 'responsibility' is used to mean 'sharing in the cause/s of a crash'.
And what intrusion? Whose affairs have I intruded upon?

[Ocean1]

Responsibility does not necessarily equal blame. "Blame" is your word, not mine. I thought you understood context...in so much as 'responsibility' is used to mean 'sharing in the cause/s of a crash'.

Sophistry. The semantic content is indistinguishable.

And what intrusion? Whose affairs have I intruded upon?

Those whom you presume to instruct.

I would normally have written off your continued refusal to understand what represents socially acceptable discourse as a simple mechanism of argument.

Your recent reinterpretation of a perfectly straightforward and inoffensive question as something you felt you should resent tends to indicate, though that you indeed have a tendency to read what you want no matter the actual words presented.

Whichever is the case I’ll sign off here. I expect you to continue to behave badly. You should expect me to point that out to you from time to time.

[James Deuce]

So, finally got the "word" on my accident. They fact that I was so messed up and my bike wasn't has left a lot of people very confused, SCU being part of that group. The newly accepted theory is that the sheep that took me out jumped at me and hit me in the chest and then landed on my head. Explains the rib injuries and smashed helmet I suppose and the fact my gear was more scuffed on the back than the front, despite me coming to on my front.

I'm still a fuckwit for not taking it easier after getting around a lot of stock on the road.

Speaking of bitching about bikers, when did Maungaraki become a Harley Haven and why the fuck do they have to be so loud and run so badly? I've ridden a lot of Harleys and none of them run as badly as a couple Softails that go backwards and forwards up Dowse Dr, sounding like a like a couple of badly shot up Messerschmitts about to smack into the English channel after being filled with Browning's finest .303 rounds. I'm starting to get pissed off at being woken at 6 in the morning by these inconsiderate bastards.

[Spearfish]

585 and counting