New road safety measures

[Swoop]

Only if you define "better" as being involved in less accidents.

Quite so. We need to remember that this is all about licence testing. Nothing more.
It is entirely different to be considering driver/rider training, which still appears to be overlooked by the politicians.

[davereid]

This is all about gradual implementation of the safer roads strategy.

It is a set of ideas based around the precept that "people will make mistakes and crash".

So its sets out to reduce the effect of, and likely-hood of these crashes.

It has lots of road engineering ideas in it.

The idea of reducing speeds is simply to do with survivability. The reality is, that if we all drove at 20km/hr, any accidents we had would be quite survivable.

Even though you may be safe at speed, your survivability should an accident occur is lower.

Other techniques being introduced are centered around electronic enforcement. Cameras doing most of the speed and licensing related enforcement.

Electronic devices to stop you driving unless you demonstrate you are sober. Automatic speed control and electronic enforcement of driving hours by devices fitted to your vehicle are also proposed, and will implemented much sooner than many imagine.

http://www.transport.govt.nz/saferjo...s/default.aspx

[Murray]

So demerit points will now be given on camera speeding fines - great!!

However if they do this it would be nice to expect them to use the camera's for the reason they were originally introduced and that was for use in black spot or accident area's. But no, we have them in area's where there are no accidents!! Great to have 2 of them within 2 kms on Te Rapa straight where I cannot remember any major accidents in the last 5 years.

revenue revenue revenue

And I love the comment "that police will rely more on speed cameras to free up more resources to focus on high risk drivers" (thank you Mr Joyce). What about using the time freed up to attend burglaries, assaults and other crime and catch the increasing low life scum being bred!!

[oneofsix]

So demerit points will now be given on camera speeding fines - great!!

!

so now you too can earn demerit points whilst your vehicle is in the mechanics If they bought in the Japanese and German system where they have to get a photo of the driver and ID them, that would be better.

[Ocean1]

This is all about gradual implementation of the safer roads strategy.

Wow. It feels really cool to be public enemy No1.

However, I have no plans to pay that game. I'll switch to something like burglary, embezzlement, car conversion, all much less likely to attract attention.



Just one question… who asked for this?
Only, I don’t remember hearing anybody saying “please can you tax the living fuck out of our arses when we go as fast as we want to, ‘cause we just can’t seem to help ourselves.”

[saltydog]

Basically sick of it all. The government and their desperate attempt(s) to get another term. The government departments who have been told to trim, cut, slash, invent and re-invent ways to justify their contiuned existence. And all the time we are going backwards. Dont get me started on the justice system and the lawmakers in this shithole. And lets get these bloody treaty claims sorted for once and all so we can get on being New Zealanders. One rule for all..... I doubt it. I'm sick of all that shit as well.
We are just victims to this fucked up namby-pamby PC shit that is being force fed through hasty, ill conceived leglislation.
On the bright side........ I have 50 dermerits coming off in July...I can start speeding again, not rego'ing my bike for 12 months at a time, running lights, stop signs, riding in bus lanes.......and then i have another 25 coming off in August....just watch out then.....I might run for parliment

[MrKiwi]

Basically sick of it all. The government and their desperate attempt(s) to get another term. The government departments who have been told to trim, cut, slash, invent and re-invent ways to justify their contiuned existence. And all the time we are going backwards. Dont get me started on the justice system and the lawmakers in this shithole. And lets get these bloody treaty claims sorted for once and all so we can get on being New Zealanders. One rule for all..... I doubt it. I'm sick of all that shit as well.
We are just victims to this fucked up namby-pamby PC shit that is being force fed through hasty, ill conceived leglislation.
On the bright side........ I have 50 dermerits coming off in July...I can start speeding again, not rego'ing my bike for 12 months at a time, running lights, stop signs, riding in bus lanes.......and then i have another 25 coming off in August....just watch out then.....I might run for parliment

Easy to complain, so what do you suggest. The idea of moving to a road strategy that looks at the total system and then factors in ways to be more forgiving when we make a mistake, which we occasionally do, is a better idea than a road safety strategy that basically assumes the rider/driver is always at fault.

And if you speed and get caught, that's tuff. You know the laws before hand...

[swbarnett]

And if you speed and get caught, that's tuff. You know the laws before hand...

You've got your head well and truly burried.

Let's say it was illegal to drink more than one glass of water a day. You drink your alotted glass in the morning and by the time you get home at night you're absolutely parched. Are you going to be a good little law-abiding boy and stick to the one glass rule? Oh, and BTW, there's plenty of water to go around. The only reason for the law is so that TPTB can charge more for water and feel powerful. And to enforce their water selling monopoly and their sense of superiority your tap is metered and you're fined a day's wages every time you go over one glass a day. Would you say "Tough!" to anyone caught?

It may seem a ridiculous example but most cases speeding are no more dangerous than having a second glass of water.



The real problemn is that the western world is getting far too prescious. The prevailing thought seems to be that any level of bodily harm is a tragedy. What utter bollocks! I'd rather a shorter time with life in the living (good and bad) than survive to a ripe old age having never lived. NOBODY has the right to protect me from myself! Read my Sig.

[MrKiwi]

You've got your head well and truly burried.

Let's say it was illegal to drink more than one glass of water a day. You drink your alotted glass in the morning and by the time you get home at night you're absolutely parched. Are you going to be a good little law-abiding boy and stick to the one glass rule? Oh, and BTW, there's plenty of water to go around. The only reason for the law is so that TPTB can charge more for water and feel powerful. And to enforce their water selling monopoly and their sense of superiority your tap is metered and you're fined a day's wages every time you go over one glass a day. Would you say "Tough!" to anyone caught?

It may seem a ridiculous example but most cases speeding are no more dangerous than having a second glass of water.



The real problemn is that the western world is getting far too prescious. The prevailing thought seems to be that any level of bodily harm is a tragedy. What utter bollocks! I'd rather a shorter time with life in the living (good and bad) than survive to a ripe old age having never lived. NOBODY has the right to protect me from myself! Read my Sig.

What a facile answer, sorry to be blunt. I did not say that going faster than the speed limit was unsafe, I implied in my post that the law is clearly stated and if you choose to break it you're more the fool - even if the law is considered to be foolish. The tendency by us motorcyclists to speed is legendary - and we have the collective arrogance to try and justify it away with the sort of tripe argument you've come up with, or worse still we complain that it is revenue gathering. Hell, if I was Police I'd gladly gather revenue all day long - easy money and at some point it's got to hurt. When I speed, and I do, and if I'm dumb enough to get caught then it's a fair cop. End of story. Doesn't stop me agitating to get the law changed though.

And there has been one speed limit changed recently that absolutely flabbergasted me. TPTB actually increased the limit on a stretch of road - bugger me!

[Ocean1]

What a facile answer, sorry to be blunt. I did not say that going faster than the speed limit was unsafe, I implied in my post that the law is clearly stated and if you choose to break it you're more the fool - even if the law is considered to be foolish.

So there's no real reason for the law? And yet you suggest we should not only tolerate it but accept censure for breaking it?

HIS reply is facile?

And there has been one speed limit changed recently that absolutely flabbergasted me. TPTB actually increased the limit on a stretch of road - bugger me!

The trend is otherwise, though, is it not? Taken to a natural and all too predictable conclusion we'll see speeds continuing to be reduced. Grays road is a shocker, down to 60k, now, "temporarily" (for the last year or so). There's nothing wrong with the road or the original limit, it's just a traditional hoon route and therefore a high accident road. How the fuck is reducing the speed to a crawl fixing that?

[MrKiwi]

So there's no real reason for the law? And yet you suggest we should not only tolerate it but accept censure for breaking it?

HIS reply is facile?



The trend is otherwise, though, is it not? Taken to a natural and all too predictable conclusion we'll see speeds continuing to be reduced. Grays road is a shocker, down to 60k, now, "temporarily" (for the last year or so). There's nothing wrong with the road or the original limit, it's just a traditional hoon route and therefore a high accident road. How the fuck is reducing the speed to a crawl fixing that?

On Grey's road it is not, 60km/hr is stupid in my view, and that is a view shared by most who drive/ride the road judging by their collective speed, including mine, but if I get caught I at least knew and it was my choice to speed. And yes the trend is otherwise, that's why I was flabbergasted.

My view is that by arguing we should be able to break the laws we don't agree with is akin to societal disorder on a massive scale - why have any laws at all. Some would like that I think. (and generally speaking I think we have too many laws on the whole).

[oneofsix]

On Grey's road it is not, 60km/hr is stupid in my view, and that is a view shared by most who drive/ride the road judging by their collective speed, including mine, but if I get caught I at least knew and it was my choice to speed. And yes the trend is otherwise, that's why I was flabbergasted.

My view is that by arguing we should be able to break the laws we don't agree with is akin to societal disorder on a massive scale - why have any laws at all. Some would like that I think. (and generally speaking I think we have too many laws on the whole).

If there was a way that the users of the roads could have meaningful in put then the arguments would be by that channel. Garys Rd is a good example, as you say nothing wrong with the original limit but some fuckers that decided to live around there and only use the road twice a day decided that they would prefer everyone else to use SH58, the way to achieve that is to make Garys unusable. Therefore you have a ridiculously low peed limit and those friking dangerous pole things in the middle of the road just where you need to be concentrating on the road and not some stupid roading furniture. The only people who can object are Porirua city residents, yeah like someone in Porirua East is going to give a fuk. BTW between Grays and SH58 I would have to say SH58 is the more dangerous.

[swbarnett]

What a facile answer, sorry to be blunt.

I wish more people would be, no offence taken.

I agree that the situation I talked about would be silly in the extreme. So are our speeding laws.

I did not say that going faster than the speed limit was unsafe, I implied in my post that the law is clearly stated and if you choose to break it you're more the fool - even if the law is considered to be foolish.

Yes, I know the law and if I get cought I'll be the last person to moan about it beyond cursing to myself. However, I read from your post that you would have no sympathy for those that are caught out by a stupid law. This is what I take issue with.

The tendency by us motorcyclists to speed is legendary - and we have the collective arrogance to try and justify it away with the sort of tripe argument you've come up with,

My justification is the principle that, as citezins, we have both the moral right and obligation to fight any law that is obviously counter to the interests of society and the rights of the individual. If more people were willing to stick their neck out the laws would soon be repealed. The cops would have a hard time of it if crowds of thousands of people actively went about destroying speed cameras.

When I speed, and I do, and if I'm dumb enough to get caught then it's a fair cop. End of story. Doesn't stop me agitating to get the law changed though.

If the law is inherently unjust there's nothing fair about it. Would you say it was fair for a black man sitting in the white section of the bus to be beaten nearly to death by the police?

[swbarnett]

My view is that by arguing we should be able to break the laws we don't agree with is akin to societal disorder on a massive scale

Now you've got it! This brings to mind the storming of the Bastille in 1789. I guarantee that that crowd could in no way be called law-abiding.

[Ocean1]

My view is that by arguing we should be able to break the laws we don't agree with is akin to societal disorder on a massive scale - why have any laws at all. Some would like that I think. (and generally speaking I think we have too many laws on the whole).

I don't see most people breaking any other law, most of us accept the need for most of the rules.

But traffic regulation in general and speed limits in particular represent a set of rules that 99% of the population break routinely. As in every day.

Just whose benefit are the rules for?