2011 Budget

[Oscar]

dunno. I'll play your silly game - what was it?

It's not my game.
You gave the names of 3 MP's who get paid 5 times what they earned in private life.
I just wondered how you knew.

[rainman]

Which rock are you living under?
He's been doing it since he was leader of the opposition.
Labour having been giving Key shit about everything from being a rogue trader to having too many minders. Do you think they'd let him spin charity donations?

So, that's a no, then?

[Ocean1]

This is my very crude understanding of the system.

If it's that easy you'd be a fool not to jump on the bandwagon wouldn't you?

Say you need a machine, y'know; to make shit. And you've been a good thriftie wee pixie and saved what should have been your wages all year so you've got most of the funds to hand.

You buy the machine, and as you said the profits take a hit that year. So that's a shitload of tax yo don't have to pay at the end of the year eh? Wrong. You might not have the cash any more but you'll still be paying tax on about 88% of it. Don't have it? Tough.

Oh, and if you've just ticked over a couple of years in business, (and you really think you can start to see some actual cash in your future at last) expect a letter from Inland Revenue advising you that you'll need to stump up with last years tax, this years tax and next years tax. Now please.

When you've managed all that and you're somehow still solvent, (I can tell you how, but you won't like it) then I guess you'd be well tooled up to let us know how to do it better eh?

I'll be waiting by the phone.

[superman]

If it's that easy you'd be a fool not to jump on the bandwagon wouldn't you?

Say you need a machine, y'know; to make shit. And you've been a good thriftie wee pixie and saved what should have been your wages all year so you've got most of the funds to hand.

You buy the machine, and as you said the profits take a hit that year. So that's a shitload of tax yo don't have to pay at the end of the year eh? Wrong. You might not have the cash any more but you'll still be paying tax on about 88% of it. Don't have it? Tough.

Oh, and if you've just ticked over a couple of years in business, (and you really think you can start to see some actual cash in your future at last) expect a letter from Inland Revenue advising you that you'll need to stump up with last years tax, this years tax and next years tax. Now please.

When you've managed all that and you're somehow still solvent, (I can tell you how, but you won't like it) then I guess you'd be well tooled up to let us know how to do it better eh?

I'll be waiting by the phone.

IRD website says you can directly claim these:-

• business-related legal fees up to $10,000 a year
• rent paid on business premises
• repairs and maintenance on business items
• stationery and supplies for the business
• purchases of raw materials or trading stock
• electricity and telephone costs
• business vehicle and transport costs
• interest on money borrowed for the business
• interest on underpayments of tax
• gross wages paid to employees
• insurance of business assets or premises
• premiums paid for accident insurance
• ACC levies
• 50% of business entertainment costs
• any fringe benefit tax you’ve paid
• depreciation

[Winston001]

IRD website says you can directly claim these:-

• business-related legal fees up to $10,000 a year
• rent paid on business premises etc etc...
  

This argument is a no-winner. Until you are self-employed you can't really grasp the complexities involved. Such as fringe benefit tax on personal vehicle use. And vehicle log books to prove business use.

I was in your camp once upon a time - glaring darkly at "business" people while earning a low wage myself.

Then I became a business owner. To then find that our employees sometimes earned more than me. And IRD wanted plenty of tax paid ahead just in case things got better.

Ultimately my business assets comprise a 10yr old vehicle, heaps of books worth zilch, computers nobody would buy, and old desks etc. I'm not unhappy about that because that is always what I expected. The value of being my own boss (in a partnership) was worth it.

Nevertheless wage earners think the self-employed are creaming it and the self-employed just keep trying and hoping that one day they will. Its not a bad thing for any of us.

[superman]

This argument is a no-winner. Until you are self-employed you can't really grasp the complexities involved. Such as fringe benefit tax on personal vehicle use. And vehicle log books to prove business use.

I was in your camp once upon a time - glaring darkly at "business" people while earning a low wage myself.

Then I became a business owner. To then find that our employees sometimes earned more than me. And IRD wanted plenty of tax paid ahead just in case things got better.

Ultimately my business assets comprise a 10yr old vehicle, heaps of books worth zilch, computers nobody would buy, and old desks etc. I'm not unhappy about that because that is always what I expected. The value of being my own boss (in a partnership) was worth it.

Nevertheless wage earners think the self-employed are creaming it and the self-employed just keep trying and hoping that one day they will. Its not a bad thing for any of us.

Lol yeah I'm trying to learn about it more. I own a vending machine, but because it only profits around 5k a year, and sole traders don't have to pay any tax if profit is less than 6k per year I don't really have to worry.

I don't have an issue with people doing it. It's rich people getting allowance money from the government due to low "taxable income" with no direct relation to wealth that pisses me off.

[Ocean1]

IRD website says you can directly claim these:-

And why shouldn't you? You do understand what "costs" are don't you?

And in fact you'd be surprised what category IRD considers some of those things fall under.

New engine to replace the lunched one in the truck? is an asset improvement, not maintenance.

Like I said, when you've walked a mile...

[Brian d marge]

Im self employed

Love it , moneys good , Holidays are fantastic , drink beer anytime I want ...and what I did to the secretary last weekend you could print in a public forum ( it should be IN forum!)
Next week I am jetting out to Bahrain to have a beer with a good friend (JT LeRoy) before returning back to Japan

I have No Idea why you fellas make such hard yards of it .......

Stephen

[Oscar]

So, that's a no, then?

Google is your friend.

[rainman]

Google is your friend.

Clearly not as much as it is yours - I could only find spin lines repeated by fanbois like you, and a woolly worded comment from the man himself dating from before the election.

Now I don't doubt that he does give a chunk of change to charities - who, with tens of mil in the bank and a salary of $375000 pa, wouldn't? - but the mental weakness you are displaying is to assume either that he donates most of his money, deriving minimal benefit from his pay, or that this makes him exceptional.

There is simply no evidence of the former (and no, I don't trust his word on this). And lots of us (including many MPs) give to charities, and would gladly give more if we had more to give. If I had 50 mil - although I'd guess he doesn't either, anymore - earning interest, and a nearly $400k paypacket, once I had paid the mortgage and provided a modest sum for my retirement and the kids education, I'd happily give all of the rest away and be entirely happy. I wouldn't even need to live in an $8m house with other properties around the world.

I might buy a better bike, of course.

You can live bloody comfortably here on a helluva lot less than $400k - all of the rest is just cream. Frankly, I think there should be performance pay for MPs. JK wouldn't be coming near to earning his base pay - if you did an objective job sizing, excluding the whole "responsible for the entire country" schtick, which just ain't true, he's grossly overpaid based on his competence and performance. And don't get me started on English - if I were his boss he'd have been performance managed out some time ago. Actually, I'd restructure the whole damn lot.

Anyway, this has little to do with the budget, so perhaps it's best left for another thread.

[Oscar]

Clearly not as much as it is yours - I could only find spin lines repeated by fanbois like you, and a woolly worded comment from the man himself dating from before the election.

Bullshit.
It was reported in the mainstream media.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...ary-to-charity

Are you saying that the Opposition, after having a go at Key for various pathetic reasons over the last few years would have missed an opportunity like this.

What we have here is the Kiwi Tall Poppy Machine in overdrive. You can't stand success.

[rainman]

Bullshit.
It was reported in the mainstream media.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...ary-to-charity

Are you saying that the Opposition, after having a go at Key for various pathetic reasons over the last few years would have missed an opportunity like this.

What we have here is the Kiwi Tall Poppy Machine in overdrive. You can't stand success.

Bullshit right back at ya. Read that article, and re-read my response, and work on your comprehension skills.

The reason the opposition doesn't have a go at him on this is because the level of Key's donation to charity is unknowable to all but a few people. Which set does not include you, I'm pretty sure, thus your initial parroting of party lines is still intellectually weak, and unsubstantiated by any facts. Which is why I picked you up on it - I don't like mindless spin. But feel free to let your ideological bias let you believe Key is exceptional, if that's what floats your insecurity boat.

And bullshit x2: I don't come from a culture that suffers from Tall Poppy Syndrome, and I'm quite keen on success, work and achievement, actually. The difference is that I don't define making a bit of money being a financial trader, and surrounding yourself with material goods, to be success. Au contraire.

Successful people are those that are self-reliant, can take care of themselves and their families, take reasonable steps to protect against future risk, and then apply themselves to helping the rest of society rather than exploiting it. I don't give a fuck about how many zeroes there are in your bank balance, how big your telly is, or what car you drive - it's what's in your heart, your brain, and your actions, that defines value in a human being.

Key seems to be someone who's in it for himself, for the glory - he's borderline narcissistic. If he's NZ's idol/ideal, then $deity help us all.

[Oscar]

Bullshit right back at ya. Read that article, and re-read my response, and work on your comprehension skills.

The reason the opposition doesn't have a go at him on this is because the level of Key's donation to charity is unknowable to all but a few people. Which set does not include you, I'm pretty sure, thus your initial parroting of party lines is still intellectually weak, and unsubstantiated by any facts. Which is why I picked you up on it - I don't like mindless spin. But feel free to let your ideological bias let you believe Key is exceptional, if that's what floats your insecurity boat.

And bullshit x2: I don't come from a culture that suffers from Tall Poppy Syndrome, and I'm quite keen on success, work and achievement, actually. The difference is that I don't define making a bit of money being a financial trader, and surrounding yourself with material goods, to be success. Au contraire.

Successful people are those that are self-reliant, can take care of themselves and their families, take reasonable steps to protect against future risk, and then apply themselves to helping the rest of society rather than exploiting it. I don't give a fuck about how many zeroes there are in your bank balance, how big your telly is, or what car you drive - it's what's in your heart, your brain, and your actions, that defines value in a human being.

Key seems to be someone who's in it for himself, for the glory - he's borderline narcissistic. If he's NZ's idol/ideal, then $deity help us all.

If intellectual rigor is your thing, how come you scoff at someone accepting that some of Keys' salary is going to charity, yet admit yourself that he does it? I did not say how much he donated, just that he did. He therefore could fit your description of the succesful person who has applied themselves to helping the rest of society. Yet you somehow know that:

Key seems to be someone who's in it for himself, for the glory - he's borderline narcissistic

If he was in it for himself, he'd still be a currency trader.

This seems to be a classic example of a bullshit party line and a tall poppy practitioner.
Your brand of pompous pseudo intellectualism is what's gonna keep the left out of power for the next generation.

[Ocean1]

Your brand of pompous pseudo intellectualism is what's gonna keep the left out of power for the next generation.

... praise the lord.

[rainman]

If intellectual rigor is your thing, how come you scoff at someone accepting that some of Keys' salary is going to charity, yet admit yourself that he does it? I did not say how much he donated, just that he did.

Because, as you say, rigor is my thing. It may be prudent for you to revisit your original post at this point, just saying.

If he was in it for himself, he'd still be a currency trader.

Dunno, there's a couple of other explanations that spring to mind, none of which involve altruism.

Anyway, back to the budget. Wotcha think of Labour's response then?