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Thread: The welfare state

  1. #61
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    I'm going to suffer pain for this, but what the hell.

    http://waxingofflyrically.blogspot.c...st-losers.html
    If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?



  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Deuce View Post
    I'm going to suffer pain for this, but what the hell.

    http://waxingofflyrically.blogspot.c...st-losers.html
    Not from me, you're not!
    “- He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.”

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oblivion View Post
    If we managed to get in a Welfare system, where the $$ you get on a benefit decreases each year, unless you can provide sufficient evidence where

    1) There is proof that you are applying for a job. You list all the places where you have applied, and the WINZ rings those people to see if an application was indeed put forward. (Make it so businesses are required to keep evidence of all applications made)

    2) The money that you get is only barely sufficient to maintain the most minimal yet comfortable lifestyle. (Eg Beneficiaries with children.)

    3) You are in a state where you are unable to work, and this has been checked and certified by a medical professional.

    As of now, there is no effort being made to weed out the scammers from the system. As soon as we can, we should be alot better off.
    #1 is the biggest make-work waste of money I've heard in a while. What will that add to the productive economy? Create a Ministry of Small-Minded Checking Up You're Actually Applying for a Job? Dumb suggestion.
    #2 is there already - been there, done that, it IS only barely sufficient to live on.
    #3 is called the invalid's benefit. It's been there for quite a while. You can argue the medical checks should be beefed up but there's f-all difference between the amount of attention WINZ gives you as an unemployment beneficiary vs. an invalid, so what would you gain?

    And, why do you think, through both Labour and Nat governments that there's "no effort being made to weed out the scammers"? Ever thought maybe it's a tough nut to crack? Bet you couldn't do a better job of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Stranger View Post
    When I was out of work due to illness it was unlikely that I would be able to return to my previous job so I started my own company (went from construction to IT). Is this not an option?
    Kinda what happened, although mostly when people talk about starting their own company they actually mean "casualise their own labour". Unless you make or distribute a product (and for most people don't have the financial or intellectual capital to make a go of this), or think up a novel service (all the standard ones are pretty well looked after) - all you're doing is become a contractor with no labour rights, so employers don't even have to pretend to treat you reasonably. Sure the rates are typically higher but there's downward pressure on that too. Almost all of my mates who were out of work recently have gone back to work as casual contractors - and mostly not at premium rates.

    My old man took an admin job "beneath his capabilities" because he couldn't afford to study what he wanted. But his employer treated him fairly and he had a career path, stayed with the same outfit for the best part of 40 years, until he died. When I was young I thought working at the same job forever sounded like torture, but I'd grab it with both hands today. I'm currently doing OK on a decent length contract but even so I know I could be out the door on two weeks notice, irrespective of my performance - next time Goldman Sachs makes a stoopid move, or next time oil jumps a few $10s and the economy tanks, there goes my and my family's security. Again.

    It's not a better world we've made, this.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Stranger View Post
    On the foreign issue.
    I obviously don't know you, but I really can't stress enough, communication can be a HUGE part of that.
    I know what you mean, but it's more culture than communications, honestly. Example: friend of mine, great references, excellent experience, solid financial analysis and risk management skills, qualified, absolutely fluent, multiple languages - in fact a highly intelligent and erudite speaker and thinker - hard worker, fucken brilliant asset to any company that would have taken him on; but with a distinctly foreign name. No matter what we tried, no matter how we buffed and polished his CV every way we could, and pitched him to all of the right places, he didn't get a look in. Not even one interview, even when I knew there were genuine vacancies. He ended up doing something way, way below what he could have contributed, and is (just a little) embittered and cynical about the place. And this isn't an isolated case, or even only since the recession.

    I've sat alongside Kiwi hiring managers at companies I've worked at, where they have flicked through the applicant CV pile and sifted out the foreigners or those that didn't go to the right school. You're not the welcoming lot that you may think you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by SMOKEU View Post
    I have seriously been thinking about joining the po-leese. I don't have any criminal convictions, never been arrested before and the only fine I've ever had was for a noisy exhaust a couple of years back. The only thing holding me back is my fitness level.
    Nah, go for it. You sound like a relatively young chap. Take it from me, fitness can be sorted a helluva lot easier at your age than at mine. I tried to work for the police call centre when I had no work. Chased them three times before they said sorry, drowning in applicants, don't call us, we are unlikely to call you... So get in while you can.
    Redefining slow since 2006...

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainman View Post
    Kinda what happened, although mostly when people talk about starting their own company they actually mean "casualise their own labour".

    It's not a better world we've made, this.
    Casualise my own labour.
    Well, perhaps, I'm working right now. Tomorrow morning is busy, but the afternoon will probably be slack. Tuesday morning I'll be down at the pools no matter how busy I am (short of a server melt down) doing lengths until about mid day, then I'll see how it goes after that - with a little luck I'll be too fucked to move in the afternoon. Used to work my arse off 60-80 hour weeks for years, but I can't say I'm too upset now that my labour being "casualised" - can't ever imagine going back to a real job. Never say never - but I doubt it.

    If god gives you lemons, get a new god right.

    Quote Originally Posted by rainman View Post
    I've sat alongside Kiwi hiring managers at companies I've worked at, where they have flicked through the applicant CV pile and sifted out the foreigners or those that didn't go to the right school. You're not the welcoming lot that you may think you are.
    The right school - isn't exactly racist and happens the world over.
    Reality is the world is about who you know. Build relationships, it goes a long way.
    May I enquire where you are from?




    You're still sounding like you're relying on someone else for your future.
    Fucked if I would. I mean, isn't that the ultimate test of one's worth.
    You rely on your abilities and wits to survive, if you can't make it then guess what - you're not worth what you think someone else should be paying you.
    A lesson most Labour MP's will never understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tank
    You say "no one wants to fuck with some large bloke on a really angry sounding bike" but the truth of the matter is that you are a balding middle-aged ice-cream seller from Edgecume who wears a hello kitty t-shirt (in your profile pic) and your angry sounding bike is a fucken hyoshit - not some big assed harley with a human skull on the front.

  5. #65
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    you're starting to sound like skiddie. all talk and no action. thinking about this, thinking about that. just get off your fat arse and do something. don't whinge about not having a job, then say I don't want to stack shelves, cause that suggests that you have turned down an actual job.

    and if you really want to join the police, you're gonna need to do some navel gazing to your embedded attitudes - cause as it stands - i would do everything to make sure you never get in.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Deuce View Post
    I'm going to suffer pain for this, but what the hell.

    http://waxingofflyrically.blogspot.c...st-losers.html
    Ok I'll bite.

    To have a child is a choice, whether it is planned or not it is a choice.
    I choose not to have children, thats is my choice so why should i have to pay for someone else's? Will someone pay for my dog if i loose my job, will they pick up my mortgage payments if my partner looses hers?

    The answer is of course not because I have made the choice not to live above my means, have insurance against any problem that might eventuate and don't expect someone else to pay for me.

    All benefits have become a lifestyle choice and it should stop now.

  7. #67
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoristheBiter View Post

    The answer is of course not because I have made the choice not to live above my means, have insurance against any problem that might eventuate and don't expect someone else to pay for me.
    I can tell you from personal experience that one day you may not have a choice. The vast majority of NZers escaped the worst effects of the GFC. I did not.
    If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?



  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Deuce View Post
    I can tell you from personal experience that one day you may not have a choice. The vast majority of NZers escaped the worst effects of the GFC. I did not.
    Its called putting away for a rainy day.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoristheBiter View Post
    Its called putting away for a rainy day.
    You don't know what you're talking about so there's no need to be patronising. You can end up with nothing very quickly completely outside your control.
    If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?



  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Deuce View Post
    I'm going to suffer pain for this, but what the hell.

    http://waxingofflyrically.blogspot.c...st-losers.html
    Don't know about this Jim Walsh guy - seems to be a whack job really.
    There is a mid ground. Bipolar Disorder, Schizophrenics etc should be taken care of (IMHO). There are many through no fault of their own are unable to work or otherwise contribute to the economy. I'm all for taking care of these people.
    Sure National may well be cherry picking the cases, but then these are the very ones they need to target. Granted a scatter gun approach is not necessarily the best option, but it may well be the only practical one.

    I see that there also needs to be some pretty strong disincentive element built into the laws around collecting a benefit (of any kind) to deter the lazy and those using it as a career choice - or say those with tenis elbow for example.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tank
    You say "no one wants to fuck with some large bloke on a really angry sounding bike" but the truth of the matter is that you are a balding middle-aged ice-cream seller from Edgecume who wears a hello kitty t-shirt (in your profile pic) and your angry sounding bike is a fucken hyoshit - not some big assed harley with a human skull on the front.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Deuce View Post
    You don't know what you're talking about so there's no need to be patronising. You can end up with nothing very quickly completely outside your control.
    Like What??

    I have insurance to cover me against "shit that just happens" and money in the bank in case that falls over.

    If i sounds patronising then so be it, if you piss your money against the wall and spend all you earn why should I bail you out when the shit starts to stink?

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoristheBiter View Post
    Like What??

    I have insurance to cover me against "shit that just happens" and money in the bank in case that falls over.

    If i sounds patronising then so be it, if you piss your money against the wall and spend all you earn why should I bail you out when the shit starts to stink?
    Lucky you, you've had enough spare to be able to afford insurance AND put some in the bank
    As admitted by Sir Robert Muldoon, way back in the think big days, this country and the western, capitalist system generally runs on a level of unemployment, think he said 10% was the required level of the day. The capitalist system requires people at all levels of income therefore I see no issue with those that have contributing to the lives of the lower income brackets. After all if it wasn't for the lower income people the higher income earners wouldn't be where they are.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoristheBiter View Post
    I have insurance to cover me against "shit that just happens" and money in the bank in case that falls over.
    And that Ladies and Gentlemen is why the elderly do so well in this society of ours.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoristheBiter View Post
    Like What??

    I have insurance to cover me against "shit that just happens" and money in the bank in case that falls over.

    If i sounds patronising then so be it, if you piss your money against the wall and spend all you earn why should I bail you out when the shit starts to stink?
    Interesting opinion there. Knowing something of Mr Deuce's circumstances and the challenges he has rather stoically faced over the last two years I shall reach for the pop corn and await his answer.

    I would suggest Mr Boris that the arse has never truly fallen out of your world due to circumstances beyond your control. The best laid plans mean little when you are attempting to battle the very people that you assume (indeed have paid to) be there to help you.

    I am one of the lucky ones. I have had occasions where events conspired to leave me looking into a rather large, deep and dark abyss that my life is about to (despite the best, most paranoid planning in the world) hurtle. I have been lucky. Very lucky indeed to dodge potential ruination.

    Other mans shoes and all that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mully
    The mind boggles.

    Unless you were pillioning the sheep - which is more innocent I suppose (but no less baffling)

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